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Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

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Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#11
post #3

Hasn't drought in the American west been a constant for at least the past 1500 years? Like, that's the origin story of most of the native groups - "everything died so we traveled through the hellish lands of death until we reached a place with water". Those that lived in the area throughout that time (like my own ancestors) left almost no history for obvious reasons, but it's pretty sure that they lived without most…

What's the point you are making?

It sounds like your saying that there have been droughts in the past that repeatedly uprooted and changed entire cultures lives and history.

Right now we're going to be facing even more severly droughts due to climate change that will very likely impact far more people far more severely.

So you're correct: when this happened in the past simply do to natural variation in the region in caused incredible hardship on the residents of the region.

Now we're experience this from factors changing the environment on a much larger and more aggressive scale, so it will likely be even more devastating the the past.

> hey lived without most of the trappings of what present-day humans think of as civilization, like fire, clothing, or agriculture.

While some of the native populations of the region where nomadic groups and likely didn't have agriculture, they all had fire and clothing. In addition there were plenty of agricultural civilizations in the region.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#12

> "We knew climate change would stress our water supplies and we've been preparing for it but we did not know it would happen this fast," said Gloria Gray, chairwoman of the Metropolitan Water District Board of Directors. Seems a little disingenuous

No post body was provided.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#13

Blowing up the Cascade Range would probably solve this problem. The resulting rubble would also prove as extremely potent fertilizer. Thinking about it some more the idea seems so good that you almost have to do it. Not from the US but it would also seems like a US thing to do.

Even if it were possible, it wouldn't be the Pacific coast anymore after you were done.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#14
post #3

Hasn't drought in the American west been a constant for at least the past 1500 years? Like, that's the origin story of most of the native groups - "everything died so we traveled through the hellish lands of death until we reached a place with water". Those that lived in the area throughout that time (like my own ancestors) left almost no history for obvious reasons, but it's pretty sure that they lived without most…

What's the point you are making? It sounds like your saying that there have been droughts in the past that repeatedly uprooted and changed entire cultures lives and history. Right now we're going to be facing even more severly droughts due to climate change that will very likely impact far more people far more severely. So you're correct: when this happened in the past simply do to natural variation in the region in…

> Now we're experience this from factors changing the environment on a much larger and more aggressive scale, so it will likely be even more devastating the the past.

The peoples impacted by the decades long droughts in the past did not have access to groundwater and in general terms did not have the capacity to build significant dams. This changes the impact story quite significantly.

However, they also didn't practice agriculture on the scale or with the irrigation practices that have become common in the US southwest now, and since it is this that uses 75% of all the water, the more likely change if intense drought continues is the abandonement of the "reclamation" dreams hatched in the 1920s and 1930s after 20-30 of the wettest years in the history of the United States as a nation.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#16

Blowing up the Cascade Range would probably solve this problem. The resulting rubble would also prove as extremely potent fertilizer. Thinking about it some more the idea seems so good that you almost have to do it. Not from the US but it would also seems like a US thing to do.

Honestly this is a neat idea.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#17
post #3

Hasn't drought in the American west been a constant for at least the past 1500 years? Like, that's the origin story of most of the native groups - "everything died so we traveled through the hellish lands of death until we reached a place with water". Those that lived in the area throughout that time (like my own ancestors) left almost no history for obvious reasons, but it's pretty sure that they lived without most…

> Those that lived in the area throughout that time (like my own ancestors) left almost no history for obvious reasons,

Humans have lived in the basin where I live for at least 4000 years, and many parts of it are filled with thousands of bits of their pottery as evidence of their presence. I suspect that the Tewa/Pueblo people in general would be a little troubled by the idea that they "left almost no history" behind. I'm not sure what you think the "obvious reasons" would be for this, were it to be true?

> but it's pretty sure that they lived without most of the trappings of what present-day humans think of as civilization, like fire, clothing, or agriculture.

Your assumption is incorrect. The US southwest, like other parts of north America, has been home to human civilizations for thousands of years. The meant civilizations with technologies, art, trade, travel and certainly "fire, clothing and agriculture". Chaco Canyon in NW New Mexico was at one time a basically urban center that functioned as the area hub of a trading route that stretched from south of what is now Mexico City up into Utah, and was likely home to thousands of people living in permanent dwellings.

What is true is that the populations were generally small compared to modern American cities in the region, and would have tended to concentrate in areas with year-round surface water flow. Because of the lack of access to groundwater (as we have today, perhaps at a our long term peril), when the decades-long droughts hit (e.g. in the late 1400s) many of these populations had no choice but to move.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#18
It's not unprecedented. It's been a steady state that they have pretended was not a steady state. They are not "in a drought". They say drought in a way that implies that it is a temporary state that may return to a different, normal state. But it will not. They have reached a new normal of a lower water level.

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-05-06/editorial-t... was a great editorial on this from last year.

Meanwhile, they continue to push nonsense to help. The amount of water used by residences doing "outdoor watering" is miniscule. Agriculture is over 80% of the water use in california. If they were going to completely run out of water in a week, and all outdoor watering by residences would stop, it would buy you less than a day.

It is politically untenable to fix this, as it requires not trying to grow water-hungry crops in what is literally a desert. They are trying to slow-walk things - farmers won't even be required to all have water meters to measure their water usage for years yet. It won't help enough. There is likely no way to fix this without completely destroying the livelihoods of a lot of farmers, and nobody wants to deal with that for real. It will happen either way, mind you, the only question is whether it destroys the ability of everyone else to live there at all.

Unfortunately, nature is not going to wait for politics.

Re: Nearly all of the Western USA is in drought and it's not even summer yet

#19
It's the next big crisis like the incoming ice age, global warming, climate change, covid, etc. etc. It'll never be solved. Especially when you think California has a ton of water up north but yet needs to drain the Colorado River. And nobody wants to take water from the ocean. Or run a pipeline from the east to the west. Or pass laws requiring low-flow showerheads. Lots of states in the west have full on shower heads in hotels. What a big scam. Downvote me now, you all in on the jig.
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