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Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

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Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#11

Post by Bilal_io »

kkfx wrote: post #9

A curious question: why caring about app privacy when the ecosystem they live in is designed to milk data? We do want only big&powerful being able to eavesdrop privacy but not countless of smaller actors? It might sound sterile polemics but it's not, I'm really curious how techies can talk about privacy on Android, iOS etc. My sole opinion there is just avoid using them.

> We do want only big&powerful being able to eavesdrop privacy but not countless of smaller actors?

We don't. And that's why there are efforts to create operating systems that are do not track users. Unfortunately those efforts are not well funded.

Again, we don't want big companies to track us and collect our data, but your questions sounds more like "since big companies collect our data, why should we put an effort to prevent everyone else from doing it?" I apologize if I am misreading what you're saying, but we have to do this one thing since the alternative is available, and once an alternative OS is here, we can switch to it as well.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#12

Post by imiric »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

It seems sad that in 2022 it still needs explaining what privacy is and why its a good thing. I don't wish to knock this great project, but I'm growing weary of reading what seem to be almost obligatory structures; 1) Initial platitude about how smartphones are ubiquitous, inevitable, inescapable centres of existence without which humans would die within seconds. 2) Tragic self-mocking account of how we're all idiots…

> It seems sad that in 2022 it still needs explaining what privacy is and why its a good thing.

Because for most people privacy on the internet isn't important. They either don't care it's being abused ("I've got nothing to hide"), or are OK with paying the price of giving it away in exchange for the services they get, and think are entitled to, for free.

This has many reasons, and a major one IMO is that we didn't build privacy-focused tools from the beginning. The web was built with a consumerism model where the user is only meant to browse it. When corporations grew larger based on a very lucrative market and adtech was born, there was no going back. Now, privacy-focused individuals are desperately trying to educate people and reverse the trend, governments are attempting to catch up and fight it, but that train's not stopping anytime soon.

The sad part is that majority of people won't even be interested in this article, let alone use the tools it suggests.

As for the tools themselves, as someone who's been using a de-Googled phone for years now, I'd never use any of these. It's great that they're FOSS and request no permissions, but the fact they're built by the same team and market being "privacy-friendly" as their main selling point just feels off to me. There are similar alternatives already on F-Droid and I'd rather use apps from different developers, in case someone goes rogue I don't lose all my eggs, so to speak.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#13

Post by wintermutestwin »

kkfx wrote: post #9

A curious question: why caring about app privacy when the ecosystem they live in is designed to milk data? We do want only big&powerful being able to eavesdrop privacy but not countless of smaller actors? It might sound sterile polemics but it's not, I'm really curious how techies can talk about privacy on Android, iOS etc. My sole opinion there is just avoid using them.

>privacy on Android, iOS etc

I was looking for your comment, but this line equating the two highlights a constant ambiguity in HN comments re: the threat model. Cut and paste from another of my comments on the subject:

If the subject threat model here is (1) defending against companies stealing and selling my data then Google should be called out. If the (2) state level agencies spying on you through these companies then you can add Apple to the call out.

I see this happen often and I think every conversation should be clearly grounded in the threat model that is being addressed.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#14

Post by woojoo666 »

kkfx wrote: post #9

A curious question: why caring about app privacy when the ecosystem they live in is designed to milk data? We do want only big&powerful being able to eavesdrop privacy but not countless of smaller actors? It might sound sterile polemics but it's not, I'm really curious how techies can talk about privacy on Android, iOS etc. My sole opinion there is just avoid using them.

There are also people working on privacy friendly mobile OSs, like GrapheneOS, CalyxOS, or DivestOS. Simply not using Android or iOS, is a big ask for a lot of people. Reducing tracking by using a privacy friendly OS and downloading privacy respecting apps, is a way to reduce tracking while still maintaining most of the convenience of a mobile device.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#16

Post by Aachen »

Within f-droid, though they're also on google store I assume, I can recommend Simple Mobile Tools. Just one Slovakian dev but the apps can replace various stock and non-stock apps and work fantastic. The names are a bit generic though, like Simple Gallery or Simple File Manager.

They're powerful enough for me, and simple enough that I install them for my mom and grandma (grandpa can't read, dad chose the dark side), and my brother apparently also discovered them independently. Few months ago I figured I should take stock of how many of these apps we use together and did a donation for us collectively. One benefit for family members is that now they don't have to get used to a new interface if they get a new phone, so they're less locked into one brand. Android UI always changes and just gets worse imo, and unfortunately you need the stock camera for good quality pictures, but at least things like their gallery always looks the same.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#17

Post by bornfreddy »

imiric wrote: post #12
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

It seems sad that in 2022 it still needs explaining what privacy is and why its a good thing. I don't wish to knock this great project, but I'm growing weary of reading what seem to be almost obligatory structures; 1) Initial platitude about how smartphones are ubiquitous, inevitable, inescapable centres of existence without which humans would die within seconds. 2) Tragic self-mocking account of how we're all idiots…

> It seems sad that in 2022 it still needs explaining what privacy is and why its a good thing. Because for most people privacy on the internet isn't important. They either don't care it's being abused ("I've got nothing to hide"), or are OK with paying the price of giving it away in exchange for the services they get, and think are entitled to, for free. This has many reasons, and a major one IMO is that we didn't b…

Yup, well said. And it's not like there are no alternatives. Even for "normies" there is /e/ OS (now Murena) where you can buy a ready made private (or at least mostly degoogled) phone. And for "techies" there is LineageOS, GrapheneOS,... maybe even Linux.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#18

Post by bdominy »

imiric wrote: post #12
nonrandomstring wrote: post #8

It seems sad that in 2022 it still needs explaining what privacy is and why its a good thing. I don't wish to knock this great project, but I'm growing weary of reading what seem to be almost obligatory structures; 1) Initial platitude about how smartphones are ubiquitous, inevitable, inescapable centres of existence without which humans would die within seconds. 2) Tragic self-mocking account of how we're all idiots…

> It seems sad that in 2022 it still needs explaining what privacy is and why its a good thing. Because for most people privacy on the internet isn't important. They either don't care it's being abused ("I've got nothing to hide"), or are OK with paying the price of giving it away in exchange for the services they get, and think are entitled to, for free. This has many reasons, and a major one IMO is that we didn't b…

End-to-end encryption will make a big difference as people choose applications that offer a great experience while protecting their data from 3rd parties. WhatsApp, Signal, and Apple are all making big pushes in this area and working to inform people about why it is important for their privacy. When I explain e2ee to people and how it is used in my own app for contact info sharing, they immediately get it and want it as a feature.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#19

Post by rollcat »

als0 wrote: post #10

Why is this university spending money to make basic apps instead of working on research?

Apps that are simple enough to be taken apart and studied, while complete enough to be practical tools in day-to-day tasks? Obviously you can just use them as they are (many people value minimalism), but there's also huge educational value for aspiring developers, or as testbeds for other experiments (can you be productive with only basic tools, how does it impact your social life, etc).

I think there's a huge gap between what e.g. suckless.org produces, and what's usable by ordinary people, and it would be of tremendous value to society if we could push back on unnecessary software complexity.

Re: Privacy Friendly Apps – improved privacy protection on the smartphone

#20

Post by kkfx »

Bilal_io wrote: post #11
kkfx wrote: post #9

A curious question: why caring about app privacy when the ecosystem they live in is designed to milk data? We do want only big&powerful being able to eavesdrop privacy but not countless of smaller actors? It might sound sterile polemics but it's not, I'm really curious how techies can talk about privacy on Android, iOS etc. My sole opinion there is just avoid using them.

> We do want only big&powerful being able to eavesdrop privacy but not countless of smaller actors? We don't. And that's why there are efforts to create operating systems that are do not track users. Unfortunately those efforts are not well funded. Again, we don't want big companies to track us and collect our data, but your questions sounds more like "since big companies collect our data, why should we put an effort…

No need to apologize :-) but you miss a real-world part: we do have some open-platform, even if NOT open hardware desktops, we do not have anything easy to buy at a reasonable price for mobile.

I own a Pine64 phone, it's nice to play as it was the old OpenMoko, but it's not much usable as a daily driver suggestible to generic users, including those who can use GNU/Linux desktop normally as simple users. That's the biggest issue and it's a similar systemic issue described above: we can't have really Free software if it need non-free systems to run, so we can't have free OSes if they demand non-free hw + fw crap.

Since desktops so far are at least manageable I generally suggest to run to save them, pushing desktop computing again and simply say mobile world so far is just a prison. This way perhaps since actually we need desktops to work in 99% of the cases we would been able to have them in the future, as "free" as today...

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