Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires • Hacker News Board

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#11

Post by Markoff » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:11 PM UTC

tromp wrote: post #4

> the company says the buses are "fitted with a new generation of batteries... with high energy density and optimal safety" spread around the roof and rear of the vehicle. Placing batteries in the floor makes perfect sense for lowering the centre of gravity; why would you want to spread them to the roof (which is where the video shows the fire erupting) ?

everyone wants low floor buses, can't imagine any city buying nowadays bus with extra 20-30cm step, such bus is DOA for mass public transport within city

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#12

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:18 PM UTC

Glawen wrote: post #10

emteycz wrote: post #2

Don't let this make you think this is a general feature of electric buses. There is an electric bus fleet (at least 20 buses, probably more) in Hradec Kralove, CZ for 5+ years now and it has never caught fire - and it's always the best bus ride I ever had, and it's also much better for the city environment (I mean loudness and smell)...

Except that it is next to impossible to stop a fully charged battery fire. The most efficient way is to throw the vehicle in a pool of water. But even if you manage this feat, the battery can catch fire again once remove from water.

[deleted]

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#13

Post by legulere » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:30 PM UTC

ranger_danger wrote: post #8

emteycz wrote: post #2

Don't let this make you think this is a general feature of electric buses. There is an electric bus fleet (at least 20 buses, probably more) in Hradec Kralove, CZ for 5+ years now and it has never caught fire - and it's always the best bus ride I ever had, and it's also much better for the city environment (I mean loudness and smell)...

All motorized vehicles can catch fire.

I guess you could design trams or electric trains that cannot catch fire. Without fuel and batteries you do not need to have that much flammable things on board.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#14

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:31 PM UTC

emteycz wrote: post #2

Don't let this make you think this is a general feature of electric buses. There is an electric bus fleet (at least 20 buses, probably more) in Hradec Kralove, CZ for 5+ years now and it has never caught fire - and it's always the best bus ride I ever had, and it's also much better for the city environment (I mean loudness and smell)...

It's likely enough these buses were in service for close to 5 years without a fire, from 2016:

https://insideevs.com/news/327483/bollore-introduces-12-mete...

Pulling them out of service while they try to figure out the cause of the fires isn't unreasonable.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#15

Post by ageitgey » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:35 PM UTC

Don't take this as an indictment of all electric buses. London has over 500 electric buses (out of 9,000). A lot of the buses in my neighborhood are the new electric double-decker ones and it's extremely nice. They are quieter, run smoother, don't polute the air, and have cool features like USB charging at every seat. It is like riding in a Tesla - just an obviously better bus experience. It will just take some time to get all the tech worked out everywhere as all these buses are custom spec and not mass produced models yet, but we will get there.

This page has good info but doesn't include the newest batch of buses yet: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_emission_buses_in_London

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#16

Post by neuronic » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:44 PM UTC

The city of Hamburg has changed a large portion of its fleet to electric and I love it. They are quite, they don't stink and in the last 5 years there have been no major incidents.

Just like all technology, there may be some fault in the busses used in Paris and until investigation is complete they should be suspended.

Battery fires are a general problem that needs a better solution but that doesn't chip on the rest of the benefits.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#17

Post by maxerickson » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:46 PM UTC

Markoff wrote: post #9

in Prague they recently bought 14 new electric Skoda buses (Czech/Turkish production), introduced them with big media attention into operation just this year and after few weeks they are ALL out of operation, because apparently someone designing them thought he can just use regular bus frame and put 3 tons of batteries on the roof without strengthening the frame, but while you find dozens articles about amazing new e…

The article you link states that the defect is in the chassis leveling control software and that it will be corrected, it doesn't talk about the frame strength.

So the software isn't configured for the way the mass is distributed on the bus vs a strength failure.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#18

Post by briandear » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:53 PM UTC

ranger_danger wrote: post #8

emteycz wrote: post #2

Don't let this make you think this is a general feature of electric buses. There is an electric bus fleet (at least 20 buses, probably more) in Hradec Kralove, CZ for 5+ years now and it has never caught fire - and it's always the best bus ride I ever had, and it's also much better for the city environment (I mean loudness and smell)...

All motorized vehicles can catch fire.

While true, what causes the fires? That’s important. Non-electric vehicle fires are most often caused by external causes, not something inherent in the design or during normal operation.

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#19

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 12:55 PM UTC

wcoenen wrote: post #6

tromp wrote: post #4

> the company says the buses are "fitted with a new generation of batteries... with high energy density and optimal safety" spread around the roof and rear of the vehicle. Placing batteries in the floor makes perfect sense for lowering the centre of gravity; why would you want to spread them to the roof (which is where the video shows the fire erupting) ?

The floor of the bus needs to be as low as possible to make it easier for elderly or otherwise disabled people to get on and off.

That's why kneeling busses exist. Are EV busses not equipped with that feature?

Re: Paris suspends electric bus fleet after two fires

#20

Post by Danieru » Sat, Apr 30, 2022, 1:01 PM UTC

tromp wrote: post #4

> the company says the buses are "fitted with a new generation of batteries... with high energy density and optimal safety" spread around the roof and rear of the vehicle. Placing batteries in the floor makes perfect sense for lowering the centre of gravity; why would you want to spread them to the roof (which is where the video shows the fire erupting) ?

Low center of gravity is wonderful for following racing lines, drifting, and general handling.

All things busses are not evaluated on.

While accessibility and easy access is a prime selling feature. Thus the world has chosen fewer drifting busses.