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Writing for Engineers

heinrichhartmann.com

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Re: Writing for Engineers

#11

Post by pm90 »

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck about impact or convincing others to work on my idea. If you are building something cool, show a little bit of it to me, and I like what I see, I would love to be able to drop everything else and work with you to complete it. Or if I think of some automation to reduce toil, I just wanna go tinker without having to think it through too much. If I run into constraints when building it, so be it, its a learning experience, but even failing is fun.

Obviously a rant. I just didn’t become a software engineer to be a good writer. I always wanted to build first and learn the constraints through mucking around rather than giving it so much thought before a single line of code is written.

Re: Writing for Engineers

#12

Post by dls2016 »

pm90 wrote: post #11

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck abou…

> I just don’t give a fuck about impact or convincing others to work on my idea.

Then you're talking about a hobby project.

/seinfeld Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Re: Writing for Engineers

#13

Post by mhb »

Well the first sentence is, if not wrong, at least exceedingly awkward:

Writing is key to have impact in large organizations.

Maybe "Writing is the key to having an impact in large organizations."

Re: Writing for Engineers

#15

Post by lliamander »

pm90 wrote: post #11

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck abou…

I actually like writing a lot, but I still think that often post-senior roles downplay the importance of still being an actively involved in building things.

There's a lot I have gained by having the chance go work on systems built by brilliant people. That kind of learning just can't be captured by prose. Some learning and knowledge sharing can only be done through the software itself.

People ultimately want those post-senior roles not so that they can stop coding, but so they can have more autonomy over what they code. That mismatch between IC and management expectations.

Re: Writing for Engineers

#16

Post by ZephyrBlu »

pm90 wrote: post #11

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck abou…

I think this is mostly an organizational constraint. Having a lot of people going off doing whatever they want and not communicating about it sounds like a nightmare in a large organization.

Smaller companies probably have less of this organizational overhead.

> I just don’t give a fuck about impact or convincing others to work on my idea

I'm curious what you think a Senior+ role should entail in your ideal world. I'm not sure how you can get away from impact, since otherwise I'd perceive that as authority without responsibility.

Re: Writing for Engineers

#17

Post by zmgsabst »

pm90 wrote: post #11

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck abou…

> I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck about impact or convincing others to work on my idea.

SDE 2 is a career position at Amazon — and it sounds like that’s what you want: to stay at that level, but working as the “point man” on increasingly important technical systems.

I would say that SDE 3 (senior) and SDE 4 (principal) are fundamentally political — you’re responsible for aligning the technical vision between teams and across whole organizations, as well as training SDE 1s and SDE 2s. You’re going to need to communicate, a lot, to do that.

Those roles aren’t management, but you’re also not an IC at SDE 3/4 the same way you’re an IC at SDE 1/2.

I think it’s okay to turn down promotions you don’t want.

Re: Writing for Engineers

#18

Post by pm90 »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #16
pm90 wrote: post #11

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck abou…

I think this is mostly an organizational constraint. Having a lot of people going off doing whatever they want and not communicating about it sounds like a nightmare in a large organization. Smaller companies probably have less of this organizational overhead. > I just don’t give a fuck about impact or convincing others to work on my idea I'm curious what you think a Senior+ role should entail in your ideal world. I'…

> I'm curious what you think a Senior+ role should entail in your ideal world. I'm not sure how you can get away from impact, since otherwise I'd perceive that as authority without responsibility.

The technical expertise Ive gained over the years makes me pretty confident of executing on building complex systems that a younger me probably couldn’t have done. So it feels like a waste to me that Im not leveraging that experience to make more things but instead writing proposals and debating them with other senior engineers.

Re: Writing for Engineers

#19

Post by macintux »

alimov wrote: post #6

> Know your audience This point is something that I notice in a lot of meetings. Some of the engineers I work with are long winded and tend to over-explain concepts/issues to non-engineering folks. I try to send a direct message during the meeting (now and then) to try and reel them in a little by explaining that the non-engineering folks don’t need those details and that a what they are really asking for is a summar…

That, and even if it is the right audience, know when to save your topic for another context.

I used to work with someone who, as a team meeting was wrapping up, was prone to interrupting everyone’s departure with a question that could easily have been asked on Slack.

Re: Writing for Engineers

#20

Post by Jensson »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #16
pm90 wrote: post #11

I agree with this perspective of the world (that senior+ software engineers need to be able to express themselves more fluently to be able to be impactful) but… just as a thought experiment, I wish it didn’t have to be that way. Writing is hard and not much fun (to me). Building systems that do something is hard but its a lot of fun. I just want to spend most of my time doing the latter. I just don’t give a fuck abou…

I think this is mostly an organizational constraint. Having a lot of people going off doing whatever they want and not communicating about it sounds like a nightmare in a large organization. Smaller companies probably have less of this organizational overhead. > I just don’t give a fuck about impact or convincing others to work on my idea I'm curious what you think a Senior+ role should entail in your ideal world. I'…

> Having a lot of people going off doing whatever they want and not communicating about it sounds like a nightmare in a large organization.

Why? As long as what they do doesn't interfere with others work why does it matter if they don't communicate everything immediately, rather than at a meeting at a later date? If they don't deliver anything useful you put them on a PIP and ultimately fire them, just like everybody else, I don't really see what changes here.

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