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Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

arxiv.org

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Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#11

Post by vincnetas »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #9
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #3

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, monetisation and indiscriminate collection of user data should be illegal.

Why? If I run a store and I learn about my customer’s interests, why shouldn’t I use that to make better offers? I don’t know why people are so freaked out by data collection. I just can’t believe that for all the data I share, I still get such shitty ads.

its one thing to have guest book in your store to gather feedback from your users, and totally another to follow your customers all the way back to their homes and listen what they talk about. main thing is customer explicit consent. one where customer fully understands what he consents to.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#12

Post by mort96 »

malf wrote: post #7

Paper seems to actually show things like “If you install the Fitness skill, Amazon shows you fitness ads”, but that’s less sexy, I guess.

99% of people who read your comment (including me) won't have read the paper. You should cite the parts of the paper which made you come to the conclusion that they really only showed that ads are shown based on what you install, not based on what you say otherwise.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#13

Post by mort96 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #9
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #3

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, monetisation and indiscriminate collection of user data should be illegal.

Why? If I run a store and I learn about my customer’s interests, why shouldn’t I use that to make better offers? I don’t know why people are so freaked out by data collection. I just can’t believe that for all the data I share, I still get such shitty ads.

> I don't know why people are so freaked out by living in a surveillance system where every corporation tracks their every move for profit

You haven't read enough dystopic fiction.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#14

Post by dr_dshiv »

vincnetas wrote: post #11
dr_dshiv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If I run a store and I learn about my customer’s interests, why shouldn’t I use that to make better offers? I don’t know why people are so freaked out by data collection. I just can’t believe that for all the data I share, I still get such shitty ads.

its one thing to have guest book in your store to gather feedback from your users, and totally another to follow your customers all the way back to their homes and listen what they talk about. main thing is customer explicit consent. one where customer fully understands what he consents to.

Ok, let’s take the in store analogy. Agree that following someone home to spy on them is wrong. But in store, if I see a person looking at some items on a shelf and start to tell them about related items, doesn’t that violate the need for explicit consent? Expecting “full understanding” is too high a bar, IMO. Implicit consent, public notice and opt out are sufficient. Otherwise you end up with GDPR cookie opt ins that only train people to indiscriminately push “accept” buttons.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#15

Post by CaptainZapp »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #9
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #3

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, monetisation and indiscriminate collection of user data should be illegal.

Why? If I run a store and I learn about my customer’s interests, why shouldn’t I use that to make better offers? I don’t know why people are so freaked out by data collection. I just can’t believe that for all the data I share, I still get such shitty ads.

Ok, you own a store. A customer enters your store and buys a widget. Since you're smart and want to know everything you record the sale and add it to your database.

Only that's not where it stops.

After the customer leaves the store one of you minions follows him to every other store he ever enters to record what he buys, or even looks at

That's why your analogy falls completely flat.

Nobody would complain if it only concerns your store and your sales. But people violently dislike you snooping on everything that your customer does.

Worse! He doesn't even have to be a customer of yours. You snoop anyway, even into his most private affairs.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#16

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #9
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #3

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, monetisation and indiscriminate collection of user data should be illegal.

Why? If I run a store and I learn about my customer’s interests, why shouldn’t I use that to make better offers? I don’t know why people are so freaked out by data collection. I just can’t believe that for all the data I share, I still get such shitty ads.

This a strawman. We're not talking about your friendly neighbourhood corner store here. We're talking about large scale systems with billions of users, systems that contain and shape a lot of our public discourse. The way these platforms make money inherently affects our society and our democracy. "Helping your customer" is irrelevant here.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#17

Post by greggsy »

fxtentacle wrote: post #8

The problem isn't the lack of knowledge. The problem is lack of alternatives. Name a single privacy preserving smart home assistant that the average person can buy, install, and use. Market theory says people will vote with their wallet, which is why I boycott all of them. But I'm under no delusion that my behavior will change anything. Voting with your wallet only works if someone is willing to offer what you want.

"Siri Data is associated with a random, device-generated identifier. This random identifier is not linked to your Apple ID, email address, or other data Apple may have from your use of other Apple services.

Siri Data and your requests are not used to build a marketing profile, and are never sold to anyone."

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/ask-siri-dictati...

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#18

Post by dandare »

greggsy wrote: post #17
fxtentacle wrote: post #8

The problem isn't the lack of knowledge. The problem is lack of alternatives. Name a single privacy preserving smart home assistant that the average person can buy, install, and use. Market theory says people will vote with their wallet, which is why I boycott all of them. But I'm under no delusion that my behavior will change anything. Voting with your wallet only works if someone is willing to offer what you want.

"Siri Data is associated with a random, device-generated identifier. This random identifier is not linked to your Apple ID, email address, or other data Apple may have from your use of other Apple services. Siri Data and your requests are not used to build a marketing profile, and are never sold to anyone." https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/ask-siri-dictati...

A single policy update can reverse all of this.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#19

Post by doctor_eval »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #14
vincnetas wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

its one thing to have guest book in your store to gather feedback from your users, and totally another to follow your customers all the way back to their homes and listen what they talk about. main thing is customer explicit consent. one where customer fully understands what he consents to.

Ok, let’s take the in store analogy. Agree that following someone home to spy on them is wrong. But in store, if I see a person looking at some items on a shelf and start to tell them about related items, doesn’t that violate the need for explicit consent? Expecting “full understanding” is too high a bar, IMO. Implicit consent, public notice and opt out are sufficient. Otherwise you end up with GDPR cookie opt ins th…

I don’t think anybody claims that you need consent to do the equivalent of displaying “other products you may like”. The customer entered the store willingly, and what you describe is quite literally the job of a shop assistant.

The need for consent would come if the assistant were to record the entire conversion you have with the customer, and send it to Facebook or Amazon in exchange for money.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#20

Post by mukesh610 »

mort96 wrote: post #13
dr_dshiv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If I run a store and I learn about my customer’s interests, why shouldn’t I use that to make better offers? I don’t know why people are so freaked out by data collection. I just can’t believe that for all the data I share, I still get such shitty ads.

> I don't know why people are so freaked out by living in a surveillance system where every corporation tracks their every move for profit You haven't read enough dystopic fiction.

Fiction isn't exactly a good argument
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