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The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

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11–20 of 32 posts

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#11
That brings up some memories.

In the summer of 1982 I had a job working at Bell & Howell's headquarters. At the time, B&H was Apple's "in" to schools. The B&H flavor of the Apple II (1) had a black case and (2) had some extra A/V jacks on the back. No school had a budget for computers, but most had a budget for A/V equipment. B&H also had a nationwide service organization that frequented schools, due to B&H selling lots of projectors to them.

Anyway, I used a B&H Apple II to automate some accounting tasks for one department. At lunch I would eat quickly then work on the Apple II exploring it's capabilities -- simple graphics programs, etc. I ended up writing a sector editor, then used TASC to compile it to make it useful. I recall uploading the program to a BBS when I was done, as I had no personal use for it.

My pay was $5/hour, but I burned up $5/day in gas money and $5/day for food, so really I was making $30/day.

I graduated HS and went off to college, and a few times I got calls asking me to debug something or add a feature. I had the listings with me, but it would result in a painful process verbally telling a non-programmer how to edit the program. There was no ability to dial in, so it was a purely verbal process.

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#12
post #8
post #6

Was quite an interesting article, enjoyed it. But I must be daft, because I don't understand how the title relates to the article. From the title, I had assumed that the source code to TASC had somehow been recently recovered.

I suppose the title means that they have the source code physically, just no one can understand it, because the author had to remove all comments and shorten all variable names to one character so that the code would fit into the RAM.

You’d have thought the author would have kept a lookup table of the full variable names. Maybe they did, but that was lost.

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#13
The article doesn't ever explicitly say so, but Chen expects the reader to understand from his words that TASC was written in Applesoft BASIC!

Further, TASC's coverage of BASIC keywords is almost entirely complete, going by chapter 7 of the manual. Any given Applesoft program has a very high chance of successfully compiling out of the box, and the very few differences with the interpreted language can be easily worked around (if the `DIM` command is any indication). As one used to aftermarket compilers that only support subsets of the language, TASC's comprehensiveness is very, very impressive.

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#14
post #2

I’m confused about deleting comments and renaming variables unless TASC itself written in Applesoft. Which seems crazy. > As the author added features, he kept hitting the Apple ][‘s 48KB RAM limit There was a language card that could replace the upper 16KB of ROM with RAM, but of course, you’d still need to have the interpreter somewhere. I’ve never heard of TASC before, but Beagle Bros also had an AppleSoft compile…

>I’m confused about deleting comments and renaming variables unless TASC itself written in Applesoft. Which seems crazy.

The article doesn't ever explicitly say so but, yes, Chen expects the reader to understand from his words that TASC was written in Applesoft BASIC. Crazy, indeed!

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#15

I tried this compiler out back in the day and found the benefits, at least with the AppleSoft programs I had access to (mostly MECC titles) were fairly negligible. What rarely popped up, however, were show-stopper errors — programs would compile & run. That was nice.

>I tried this compiler out back in the day and found the benefits, at least with the AppleSoft programs I had access to (mostly MECC titles) were fairly negligible.

I suppose that a compiler wouldn't do much to make something like the original BASIC The Oregon Trail feel much faster; I think the sailing-on-a-raft part wasn't added until the 1985 version, which likely was not written in Applesoft.

>What rarely popped up, however, were show-stopper errors — programs would compile & run. That was nice.

Beyond being itself written in Applesoft BASIC as I noted elsewhere, TASC's coverage of BASIC keywords is almost entirely complete, going by chapter 7 of the manual. Any given Applesoft program has a very high chance of successfully compiling out of the box, and the very few differences with the interpreted language can be easily worked around (if the `DIM` command is any indication). As one used to aftermarket compilers that only support subsets of the language, TASC's comprehensiveness is very, very impressive.

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#16
post #13

The article doesn't ever explicitly say so, but Chen expects the reader to understand from his words that TASC was written in Applesoft BASIC ! Further, TASC's coverage of BASIC keywords is almost entirely complete, going by chapter 7 of the manual. Any given Applesoft program has a very high chance of successfully compiling out of the box, and the very few differences with the interpreted language can be easily work…

Yes the article does mention that TASC was written Applesoft

  > Even if you hadn’t made it that deep into the manual, you could have figured out that TASC was used to compile itself because TASC used its own runtime library.

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#17
post #9
post #2

I’m confused about deleting comments and renaming variables unless TASC itself written in Applesoft. Which seems crazy. > As the author added features, he kept hitting the Apple ][‘s 48KB RAM limit There was a language card that could replace the upper 16KB of ROM with RAM, but of course, you’d still need to have the interpreter somewhere. I’ve never heard of TASC before, but Beagle Bros also had an AppleSoft compile…

Back in ‘84 I convinced my parents to visit the beagle bros headquarters in Los Angeles! It was awesome. They were super nice and I got to visit Sophie: the Beagle Bros beagle!

"3990 Old Town Avenue, San Diego" is permanently burned into my brain. I was finally in that neighborhood about 10 years ago and visited the shrine myself, even though any evidence of the company there is long gone now.

Re: The Applesoft Compiler (TASC): We have the source code, in a sense

#18
post #12
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose the title means that they have the source code physically, just no one can understand it, because the author had to remove all comments and shorten all variable names to one character so that the code would fit into the RAM.

You’d have thought the author would have kept a lookup table of the full variable names. Maybe they did, but that was lost.

I searched but I couldn't find out who this author is/was. Lines like "The author of TASC was very proud of this optimization." makes me think that Raymond Chen is the author, is this right?
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