To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days • Hacker News Board

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#11

Post by redytedy » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 1:04 AM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

> It's also a red flag to apply to all the Ivies.

I don't think this is necessarily correct; or, at least, your justification seems incomplete.

Of course if someone could choose between all the Ivies, there would be a single school that best suits them and should be chosen. However, there are certain applicant profiles where the acceptance variance is so high that it becomes completely rational to apply to all Ivies (or at least most of them). Anectodally, the cultured between the Ivies is homogenizing anyway and most students who actually attend have also applied to the other Ivies.

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#12

Post by jerrybender » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 1:10 AM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

Autoadmit only admits to the general liberal arts college. Your major is not guaranteed if you are an autoadmit.

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#13

Post by junar » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 1:15 AM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

I agree that she's probably made some mistakes with her image across her college application essays, and that publicizing with the WSJ is unlikely to do her any favors either.

Applying to multiple Ivy and other top-ranked schools is fairly common. "Business" isn't a super specialized academic area, so I doubt any of the top schools are going to be that much better or worse than the others.

UT Austin has competitive admissions for certain majors, regardless of automatic admission to the school. The article notes that she only got accepted to the school, not her preferred major.

In the end, I think the biggest mistake is setting her sights too high. She should have known that she could have been rejected from most of these schools, and she could have applied to more schools on a similar level as UT Austin.

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#14

Post by popcube » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 2:00 AM UTC

...also people hate just performing some exam, but it maybe better for people who won't give up raise their social class

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#15

Post by cato_the_elder » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 2:53 PM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

> I 100% guarantee each of those institutions admitted white non-donor non-legacy students with Bs on their transcript.

Probably, but that's a fallacy. The important question is how many relative to others with similar academics. I think thanks to a lawsuit [1], we have some data on that for Harvard.

Here's the relevant chart by the Economist: [2]. I think it corroborates what the article's anecdote suggests.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_Fair_Admissions...

[2]: https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#16

Post by MengerSponge » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

cato_the_elder wrote: post #15

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

> I 100% guarantee each of those institutions admitted white non-donor non-legacy students with Bs on their transcript. Probably, but that's a fallacy. The important question is how many relative to others with similar academics. I think thanks to a lawsuit [1], we have some data on that for Harvard. Here's the relevant chart by the Economist: [2]. I think it corroborates what the article's anecdote suggests. [1]: ht…

Political alliances are fraught things. In this moment, some Asian students have allied with far-right white students and their parents, because both groups are somewhat disadvantaged by affirmative action. Of course, the deck was strongly stacked in favor of the white students prior to affirmative action, so actually removing all racial considerations and signifiers from white students would be a net negative for them.

It's a test case to blow up affirmative action and roll back the protections put in place during the Civil Rights Era. We know this because it's being spearheaded by Edward Bloom, who also organized Shelby vs. Holder, which sucessfully gutted the Civil Rights Act.

Finally, at a population level, it is less remarkable for a rich student to be a top decile performer, because they have far fewer obligations to their household. They don't have to work extra jobs or drive their parents to doctor's appointments. They're likely to live much closer to their schools, and those schools have been dramatically better funded.

"But what about the poor white kids" you say? The AEI isn't looking out for them either. They might have a slightly harder time getting into Harvard, but within rounding error, ZERO poor white kids go to the Ivies. The vast majority go to public state universities, which are the real target of this lawsuit.

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#17

Post by MengerSponge » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

jerrybender wrote: post #12

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

Autoadmit only admits to the general liberal arts college. Your major is not guaranteed if you are an autoadmit.

Can you matriculate into your major after your first year? I assume so, provided you performed sufficiently well in coursework that year.

Re: To Get into the Ivy League, “Extraordinary” Isn’t Always Enough These Days

#18

Post by MengerSponge » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 6:03 PM UTC

redytedy wrote: post #11

MengerSponge wrote: post #7

The application to elite colleges is more than just a straight numbers game. Essays are intended to help admissions get to know the applicant, to learn how they'd function in the college's community. The idea of spending that precious time to talk about why you made a pair of B's as a sophomore? Freakin yikes my dude. "See, I have this history of anxiety and depression and perfectionism, and I desperately need for yo…

> It's also a red flag to apply to all the Ivies. I don't think this is necessarily correct; or, at least, your justification seems incomplete. Of course if someone could choose between all the Ivies, there would be a single school that best suits them and should be chosen. However, there are certain applicant profiles where the acceptance variance is so high that it becomes completely rational to apply to all Ivies…

It's true that the culture is homogenizing, but Dartmouth or Cornell are very different communities than Penn or Columbia. Applying to some or most of the other Ivies is very different from applying to all the Ivies.

The question you have to answer in an application is why this school. If your answer is "I just want to go to an Ivy", each school gets to say "Ok, neat. Go to a different one." And if your answer is "I need to get in to an Ivy to validate myself", bless you sweet sweet heart. You answered honestly, but incorrectly.

It's like telling Columbia "I want to attend Columbia because I really want to go to college in NYC." Laugh, but it happens all the time. Their answer, of course, is "Ok, you have more than a hundred other options. Go there instead."

Give a better answer to the question. Even if the culture is homogenizing, pander to the audience and tell them things that they uniquely offer. Unless you've won the equivalent of the Siemens Competition or you have letters of recommendation from Fields Medalists, you've got to sell yourself to them.