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The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

staceyoniot.com

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Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#11
post #3
post #2

It's a device that doesn't need to be cloud connected... that's cloud connected. Smart home stuff needs a local network to the home, that's it. A server going down in Virginia shouldn't mean a person can't run their vacuum robot.

It would be easy to do that, but nobody wants to. Without cloud there is no recurring revenue upsell opportunity and no side revenue from selling user data to advertisers.

The entire market of smart-home shit's gonna keep being terrible until/unless some decent, reliable, inter-operable, long-lived standard takes over or is imposed. It's all too expensive to be worth it unless you can be pretty sure it'll keep working for at least a couple decades.

Imagine if lightbulb sockets were proprietary! It'd be madness. The current state of things with smart home stuff is worse than that, because at least there's a decent chance proprietary-lightbulb-socket world would have plentiful adapters and 3rd-party manufacturers for most or all types. The odds of a company stepping in to provide a software-side fix for Insteon dying, are slim.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#12
Let's say I want to dip my toe into smart homes, maybe get a smart light switch or two. I care about:

- privacy

- staying out of the cloud (so things like TFA don't affect me)

- an open protocol interoperable between vendors

Can anyone recommend a good "for dummies" guide written from that angle? I know that software-wise Home Assistant is generally recommended, but how do you decide what hardware to get?

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#13
post #4

So do all their products now become e-waste or is there some salvageable value?

There’s no need to use Insteons hub/cloud service. Most Insteon power users that I know are using homeseer, homeassistant as a way to control the devices.

The other good thing about, at least the light switches (which is their core product), is that they work without an internet connection and will continue to function.

However unfortunately the less tech savvy users who set up automations through Insteons service will be left (quite literally) in the dark now.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#14
post #3
post #2

It's a device that doesn't need to be cloud connected... that's cloud connected. Smart home stuff needs a local network to the home, that's it. A server going down in Virginia shouldn't mean a person can't run their vacuum robot.

It would be easy to do that, but nobody wants to. Without cloud there is no recurring revenue upsell opportunity and no side revenue from selling user data to advertisers.

This. The going understanding is that hardware companies are high risk, requiring large upfront capital with long market delivery time frames and one-off sales and continuous costs (support if not cloud). There have been some successes where ongoing revenue streams based on a cloud service make companies far more viable and profitable. Everyone thereby wants that and the VCs frequently prioritize that.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#15
post #2

It's a device that doesn't need to be cloud connected... that's cloud connected. Smart home stuff needs a local network to the home, that's it. A server going down in Virginia shouldn't mean a person can't run their vacuum robot.

Insteon devices function perfectly well without the cloud. I have several dozen of their light switches and motion sensors. The quality local communications (wireless that doesn't use 2.4GHz and interfere with WiFi + powerline) was the entire reason I went with them.

The cloud-connected hub to enable remote control was a bolt-on, and by far the least reliable part of their ecosystem.

So while I totally agree that smart home devices shouldn't require the cloud, Insteon is the wrong company to beat on there.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#16
post #2

It's a device that doesn't need to be cloud connected... that's cloud connected. Smart home stuff needs a local network to the home, that's it. A server going down in Virginia shouldn't mean a person can't run their vacuum robot.

It does seem absurd that I have to round trip to us-east-1 to turn the lights in the closet on or off but there are reasons behind the cloud-based architecture.

The original SmartThings is a very weak device that can't do a lot of processing on board. Running in the cloud it is straightforward to custom the thing by, say, writing an AWS lambda function. If you had to install "device drivers" for every IoT device on the local device it could be easily overloaded.

As it is SmartThings featureful system that is easy to code for, for instance you can browse a pretty extensive logs in the system that would be hard to store locally. One reason you don't see a good IoT device that runs independently of the cloud is that it would be much more expensive and harder to integrate with.

You might not use it but one of the selling points of the IoT is the ability to remote control devices over the internet and having a bastion in the cloud is the royal road to that being reliable.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#17
post #8

The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and/or locked in product ecosystems. Then they are either forced to a) operate on a pyramid scheme where new customers finance the ongoing costs of existing users or b) a subscription model that gives them a strong incentive to keep customers as locked into their ecosystem as possible. Either of these leave customers high and dry when the house o…

I think a big missing piece for the whole thing is the Just Works factor. You're either stuck with cloud garbage (some of which does, kinda, Just Work, until it doesn't), or a bunch of DIY. Meanwhile, with traditional dumb fixtures, switches, outlets, et c., I don't even pay attention to which brand I'm buying. They all work the same, and you hook them all up the same way, then forget about them until/unless they physically break.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#18

Let's say I want to dip my toe into smart homes, maybe get a smart light switch or two. I care about: - privacy - staying out of the cloud (so things like TFA don't affect me) - an open protocol interoperable between vendors Can anyone recommend a good "for dummies" guide written from that angle? I know that software-wise Home Assistant is generally recommended, but how do you decide what hardware to get?

Check out the Home Assistant [1] documentation and Google 'zigbee vs z-wave' (the two major interoperable standards) and you'll be on the right track I think. Comparing and contrasting will explain the caveats and benefits of each and why they are designed the way they are.

Note: By default these standards are NOT radio-secure and you need to pursue secure device pairing for devices like door locks and garage openers.

[1]: https://www.home-assistant.io/docs/

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#19

Let's say I want to dip my toe into smart homes, maybe get a smart light switch or two. I care about: - privacy - staying out of the cloud (so things like TFA don't affect me) - an open protocol interoperable between vendors Can anyone recommend a good "for dummies" guide written from that angle? I know that software-wise Home Assistant is generally recommended, but how do you decide what hardware to get?

Home Assisant, MQTT and Sonoff devices

Not that Sonoff devices are "great" out of the box for using them off the cloud, but they are pretty easy to flash tasmota onto them.

With HA there are a number of plugins that will allow you to easily setup duckdns&ssl, there is a app on both the Play Store and App Store.

EDIT: I run HA on a Rpi3 just fine, I also added a zigbee USB dongle which I use to control my TRVs. I also have some cheaper wifi sockets that could have tasmote flashed onto them, but they are a plain to open and access the pads needed to reflash them. The SonOff devices I've been playing with recently are easy to open and flash.

I also use shellys for my fixture lights, again easy enough to flash with tasmota so they are running off the local network.

Another Edit: https://templates.blakadder.com/ has a good list of tasmota supported devices.

OMFG ALL THE EDITS: Just make sure that the devices have a ESP chip in them before buying them if you want to reflash them. There has been a trend as of late of using other wifi enabled chips which tasmota doesn't support. Can't find the device on blakadder? Try https://fcc.io/ if you can find the FCCID (and your in the US) before buying the device and look for the internal photos, there is normally a pretty decent close up of the main processor in there. Also googling "The Device Name Tasmota" will often find results of other geeks trying to flash tasmota onto them.

Re: The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

#20
post #2

It's a device that doesn't need to be cloud connected... that's cloud connected. Smart home stuff needs a local network to the home, that's it. A server going down in Virginia shouldn't mean a person can't run their vacuum robot.

How are you going to get your MRR if you don't have something for your customers to subscribe to?

Easy, just make shitty devices that have to be replaced all the time!

(please don't though)

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