Quoted post unavailable.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum...
> This bs from western media has no commitment to truth
Western media tends to use Ukrainian claims, generally saying so.
The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
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Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#12Good essay. I would like to have seen a little history of Soviet/Pact/Russian thought besides American and Israeli. After all the Soviet Army was probably the most all in on tanks in the Cold War.
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#13 The truly obsolete weapons platform is the $1.2 trillion manned F-35 program. A multi-role fighter that is too expensive to fly in this new combat space and cannot survive the multitude of anti-air missiles. The drone air war is a numbers game and unmanned fighters are both cheaper and have better operational specs.
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#14now you know why the USMC got rid of all their tanks about 2 years ago.
Because they rely on the army for heavy tanks and focus their resources on other platforms.
No, it's because they need money for new tactical missiles, and standoff weapons.
And because US marines conceded on the idea of fighting China amphibiously. Honestly, the idea to take, and hold those tiny islandlets in the South Sea by force landing is ridiculous.
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No tank, or just anything will "live" if being sent into a know killbox, and Russians keep doing that repeatedly. This is what's happening in Ukraine now. Literally this: a clueless battalion sized force wades into a killbox, gets annihilated to last few men, next day, another battalion is sent to exactly the same spot...
Russians could've easily lost as much with modern, or other kind of military hardware than tanks.
Most Russian tanks were disabled by artillery, and missiles, not in tank vs. tank battles. No tank in the world would survive a 40kg missile, or an artillery shell hitting its roof. So, the quality of hardware is irrelevant.
Most of Russian military hardware losses are not from battles, but from soldiers routing, and abandoning their vehicles, which are LATER destroyed, or captured.
What is really telling is extremely low quality is the Russian military leadership.
The key here is to understand that losses do not come from 40kg missiles themselves, but from Russian generals knowingly sending their troops into ATGM, and artillery killboxes, and from Russian troops knowing their generals intentions, and acting accordingly (routing upon first battle damage)
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In the context of above, it's very clear that amphibious landing in the age of satellite reconnaissance, infrared optics, 100km artillery projectiles, and antiship missiles is not a smart way to wage war today
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#15Quoted post unavailable.
The "bs from western media" was so accurate that I could pinpoint when the invasion would start, and I consequently left my home in Odessa in the evening on February 23rd, hours before the invasion started.
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#16Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#17People conclude that tanks (sometimes, armour in general) are obsolete because the most modern anti-tank weapons defeat exactly the 70s tanks they were designed to defeat in the 90s. If anything, when someone makes this point, it tells you they are clueless.
It's not that simple though, If you fired a a few Javelins against an Abrams with a Trophy system you'd still be at risk from one of the multiple shots over time. And even if the rounds don't cook off, if the EFP goes through the crew compartment, everyone is toast from blast wounds.
I think the main gun on an MBT will be replaced by rocket systems on smaller lighter, faster vehicles like the Boxer CRV family.
Edit just to add,
The secrets out that the idea behind Javelin and NLAW is sound. Expect there to be a proliferation of reasonably cheap weapons in this category being developed and built by everyone.
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#18Quoted post unavailable.
There are plenty of independent folks doing great work analyzing (and in many cases geolocating) photos of equipment losses. Oryx is great: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum...
Basically yes: this war has been a disaster for Russian armor.
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#19I think we will see the tanks in future battlefields still but rather than cannons they will be using more electronic warfare and will be providing indirect fire with "smart" weapons. Essentially they will be multi role armoured vehicles with high manoeuvrability e.g. (British Ajax Scout Vehicle)
Or my sci-fi'ish theory of a "drone tank"
Why?
* Governments have high demands from defence and at the same time want low costs.
* Military doesn't want an infantryman any more; they want a soldier who can perform several other roles. Same goes for vehicles.
* The concept of modular vehicles with the same chassis is becoming popular.
* Everyone who was taught or believed cold war military tactics is retiring or will be soon. So new doctrines will emerge.
Re: The tank is dead: Long live the javelin, the switchblade, the ... ?
#20Something I've been thinking about is that with the emergence of weapons like the NLAW and Javelin, the Secret Service probably will have to rethink the security of the US president.
No need for heavy weapons, a pistol or a rifle and a picked time will still get you a decent shot at anyone in government. It's almost as if they're not actually scared of the population they live with. Its not like the President / etc are actually all that important. The Government is more than them, and will live on and continue doing the objectionable stuff regardless.