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Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

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Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#11

Post by photochemsyn »

I think this is a great idea, and it shouldn't be limited to Twitter. Youtube recommendation algorithms should be handled similarly, indeed any public-facing system needs to be honest about the kind of spin they're putting on their recommendatiuon algorithms. Even better, allow the users to spin the dials when it comes down to their own particular searches/results.

> “One of the things I believe Twitter should do is open source the algorithm and make any changes to people’s tweets — you know, if they’re emphasized or de-emphasized — that action should be made apparent so anyone can see that action’s been taken. So there’s no sort of behind-the-scenes manipulation either algorithmically or manually.” Musk also added later, “The code should be on GitHub so people can look through it.”" (CNBC interview)

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#12

Post by klyrs »

memish wrote: post #5

A marketplace of algorithms and "pick your own algorithm" would be interesting. Is there any reason not to do this? Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's not crazy. Even Jack is pushing for it: "The choice of which algorithm to use (or not) should be open to everyone" https://twitter.com/jack/status/1507146276416098307

Any reason to keep the general public from running arbitrary database queries? Yes, I think there is. For example, regular expressions are turing-complete so you can make a query arbitrarily slow without a single join.

edit: complexity lol

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#13

Post by mountainriver »

capableweb wrote: post #9
memish wrote: post #5

A marketplace of algorithms and "pick your own algorithm" would be interesting. Is there any reason not to do this? Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's not crazy. Even Jack is pushing for it: "The choice of which algorithm to use (or not) should be open to everyone" https://twitter.com/jack/status/1507146276416098307

Hard to monetize when people can chose algorithms that doesn't prefer content that makes them stay at the platform longer, angry or happy. Public companies are all about making money.

Subscriptions?

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#14

Post by dkobia »

The most contentious moderation happens via subjective human intervention rather than an algorithms. Fully machine driven moderation is a black hole into which copious amounts of time and money from the r&d labs of the biggest social media companies disappear into every year for a long time now.

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#15

Post by capableweb »

klyrs wrote: post #12
memish wrote: post #5

A marketplace of algorithms and "pick your own algorithm" would be interesting. Is there any reason not to do this? Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's not crazy. Even Jack is pushing for it: "The choice of which algorithm to use (or not) should be open to everyone" https://twitter.com/jack/status/1507146276416098307

Any reason to keep the general public from running arbitrary database queries? Yes, I think there is. For example, regular expressions are turing-complete so you can make a query arbitrarily slow without a single join. edit: complexity lol

You could also just limit a query to max N seconds, and abort it if so.

I don't think "marketplace of algorithms" necessarily mean people need to be able to make arbitrary database queries either, but seems besides the point.

Having their own DSL for sorting timelines can also solve that problem nicely and within whatever performance requirements they would end up with.

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#16

Post by dmitriid »

Twitter et al should/must let people opt-in to recommendation algorithms (opt-out being the default), and must have a "reset all recommendations" button present and visible at all times.

I don't care about the actual algorithm.

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#17

Post by UncleMeat »

memish wrote: post #5

A marketplace of algorithms and "pick your own algorithm" would be interesting. Is there any reason not to do this? Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's not crazy. Even Jack is pushing for it: "The choice of which algorithm to use (or not) should be open to everyone" https://twitter.com/jack/status/1507146276416098307

Several reasons.

1. Absolutely incredibly complex architecture. The recommendation engines are not just single libraries that can be easily open sourced or transformed to a plugin system.

2. Recommendation engines exist to push up relevant metrics. These are either clear wins for users (like reported satisfaction), mixed wins for users and businesses (content engagement), or clear wins for businesses (ad engagement). Most businesses aren't thrilled about subbing in systems that degrade metrics.

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#19

Post by systemvoltage »

klyrs wrote: post #12
memish wrote: post #5

A marketplace of algorithms and "pick your own algorithm" would be interesting. Is there any reason not to do this? Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's not crazy. Even Jack is pushing for it: "The choice of which algorithm to use (or not) should be open to everyone" https://twitter.com/jack/status/1507146276416098307

Any reason to keep the general public from running arbitrary database queries? Yes, I think there is. For example, regular expressions are turing-complete so you can make a query arbitrarily slow without a single join. edit: complexity lol

> are NP-complete

You mean Turing-complete?

Re: Twitter Should Open Up the Algorithm

#20

Post by fooker »

klyrs wrote: post #12
memish wrote: post #5

A marketplace of algorithms and "pick your own algorithm" would be interesting. Is there any reason not to do this? Not sure why this is getting downvoted. It's not crazy. Even Jack is pushing for it: "The choice of which algorithm to use (or not) should be open to everyone" https://twitter.com/jack/status/1507146276416098307

Any reason to keep the general public from running arbitrary database queries? Yes, I think there is. For example, regular expressions are turing-complete so you can make a query arbitrarily slow without a single join. edit: complexity lol

That seems like a very unlikely scenario which can be handled with a timeout.
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