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A story about planning for Desert Storm

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11–20 of 58 posts

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#11

Wow, I have never heard this before: “Few people remember it, but Gorbachev was negotiating with Saddam and had successfully convinced him to pull out of Kuwait. The agreement they came up with would give the Iraqis three weeks to pull out. At this point, it had become a major goal to eliminate the Republican Guard and we didn’t want them to pull their head out of the noose, so President Bush turned down the compromi…

Quoted post unavailable.

It would probably be better to do a simple fact check before going on a dubious grand narrative :

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/world/middleeast/20archiv...

> After prodding by Mr. Gorbachev, Mr. Hussein had offered to withdraw Iraqi troops from Kuwait in 21 days. But the United States appeared to be moving ahead with its land campaign.

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#12

Wow, I have never heard this before: “Few people remember it, but Gorbachev was negotiating with Saddam and had successfully convinced him to pull out of Kuwait. The agreement they came up with would give the Iraqis three weeks to pull out. At this point, it had become a major goal to eliminate the Republican Guard and we didn’t want them to pull their head out of the noose, so President Bush turned down the compromi…

> ordered the ground forces in

as i recall, the air war was so devastating there wasn't much of a purpose for ground troops and when it came time to "order the ground forces in" most of the work was just walking across Kuwait. They even made a movie about how much of a let down the ground war was to the Marines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarhead_(film)

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

It would probably be better to do a simple fact check before going on a dubious grand narrative : https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/world/middleeast/20archiv... > After prodding by Mr. Gorbachev, Mr. Hussein had offered to withdraw Iraqi troops from Kuwait in 21 days. But the United States appeared to be moving ahead with its land campaign.

21 days seems like a delay tactics since it took Iraqi troops just two days to invade.

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#14

Wow, I have never heard this before: “Few people remember it, but Gorbachev was negotiating with Saddam and had successfully convinced him to pull out of Kuwait. The agreement they came up with would give the Iraqis three weeks to pull out. At this point, it had become a major goal to eliminate the Republican Guard and we didn’t want them to pull their head out of the noose, so President Bush turned down the compromi…

Quoted post unavailable.

BLUF: The fact that nuking Japan wasn't necessary isn't some Russian propaganda, it was a sentiment strong even among many of the top brass of the military and Truman administration.

Not to start a whole debate on the utility of nuking Japanese civilians, but that "narrative" of the bombing being unjustified is nearly as old as the event itself, certainly not something that just became "popular in the last decade."

- Gen Eisenhower famously stated "It wasn’t necessary to hit them with that awful thing."

- Fleet Admiral Nimitz, Commander and Chief of the Pacific Fleet, stated "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." (Though Nimitz's perspective is slightly diminished from reports that he initially supported using atomic weapons.)

- Major General Curtis LeMay, XXI Bomber Command (a unit of the Twentieth Air Force in the Mariana Islands for strategic bombing during World War II.), stated "The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all."

- Fleet Admiral William Halsey Jr, "The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment ... It was a mistake to ever drop it ... [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it."

Other high ranking officials like Fleet Admiral Leahy (Truman Chief of Staff), are on the record stating that nuking Japan wasn't necessary. Now maybe even given these perspectives, perhaps they are all wrong. What I can say for certain is that this perspective isn't without "any real rooting in primary source materials and is pushed on a speculative basis by fringe academics looking to make a name with an out-there theory."

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#15
post #8

I'm shocked at the lack of humanity in this story. Every once in a while an "enemy" will start a war, and we'll get a bunch of coverage about orphans and mothers and fathers and horror, and I think maybe just maybe people will realize that all wars are terrible. Except when we start them, then I guess it's mostly kind of funny because our intelligence wasn't as great as it could have been?

The US didn't start the war that Desert Storm ended.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_invasion_of_Kuwait

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably be better to do a simple fact check before going on a dubious grand narrative : https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/world/middleeast/20archiv... > After prodding by Mr. Gorbachev, Mr. Hussein had offered to withdraw Iraqi troops from Kuwait in 21 days. But the United States appeared to be moving ahead with its land campaign.

21 days seems like a delay tactics since it took Iraqi troops just two days to invade.

It probably took them longer to prepare than just 2 days.

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#17
post #12

Wow, I have never heard this before: “Few people remember it, but Gorbachev was negotiating with Saddam and had successfully convinced him to pull out of Kuwait. The agreement they came up with would give the Iraqis three weeks to pull out. At this point, it had become a major goal to eliminate the Republican Guard and we didn’t want them to pull their head out of the noose, so President Bush turned down the compromi…

> ordered the ground forces in as i recall, the air war was so devastating there wasn't much of a purpose for ground troops and when it came time to "order the ground forces in" most of the work was just walking across Kuwait. They even made a movie about how much of a let down the ground war was to the Marines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarhead_(film)

I think you mean Hollywood filmed a book written by one of those marines.

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#18
post #8

I'm shocked at the lack of humanity in this story. Every once in a while an "enemy" will start a war, and we'll get a bunch of coverage about orphans and mothers and fathers and horror, and I think maybe just maybe people will realize that all wars are terrible. Except when we start them, then I guess it's mostly kind of funny because our intelligence wasn't as great as it could have been?

All wars are bad and the US doesn't go to war because it thinks it's funny. Unrelated people may joke about it, as usual.

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#19

Wow, I have never heard this before: “Few people remember it, but Gorbachev was negotiating with Saddam and had successfully convinced him to pull out of Kuwait. The agreement they came up with would give the Iraqis three weeks to pull out. At this point, it had become a major goal to eliminate the Republican Guard and we didn’t want them to pull their head out of the noose, so President Bush turned down the compromi…

Have you heard of the 'Highway of Death'? Iraqi forces were retreating on that highway, on their way back to Iraq. Coalition forces did not want to permit that, and slaughtered them. Thousands of vehicles destroyed, hundreds+ soldiers killed, thousands more captured.

I can't say I feel much sympathy towards the Iraqis here, but it does seem a tad bit vindictive.

Re: A story about planning for Desert Storm

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably be better to do a simple fact check before going on a dubious grand narrative : https://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/20/world/middleeast/20archiv... > After prodding by Mr. Gorbachev, Mr. Hussein had offered to withdraw Iraqi troops from Kuwait in 21 days. But the United States appeared to be moving ahead with its land campaign.

21 days seems like a delay tactics since it took Iraqi troops just two days to invade.

Iraq was able to "complete" its invasion and decapitation of military command & control in two days because the Kuwaitis were massively under prepared. After that you then need to consolidate your position and that would be days if not weeks of deploying troops and their equipment deeper into the country.

So after seven months of occupation there's probably a heap of logistics required to extricate and decamp your forces & equipment that likely isn't going to happen even in 10-15 days.

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