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Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

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Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#11

Post by preek »

tconfrey wrote: post #8

This is very exciting. IMO the Tools For Thought (#TFT) ecosystem is crying out for a standard interchange format to break down the silos. Org-mode could be that format. It's not just an outliner format, it's the best markup[1] and supports pretty much everything you need for journaling/task-management/project-management etc. What's been missing thus far is a single canonical definition that everyone can build on (be…

All good points. As a daily user of Org mode, I couldn’t agree more.

Hence, we are working on building a parser that also acts as a canonical definition here: https://github.com/200ok-ch/org-parser

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#12

Post by ossusermivami »

bananamerica wrote: post #6
lazyier wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find being able to open + edit notes quickly helps my thought process more, I use org with roam in Doom Emacs. The org roam notes directory is backed by git. https://www.orgroam.com/ It allows for using a Zettelkasten style approach to note taking inside of Emacs. The basic idea is small quick notes that are cross referenced, indexed, and searchable. Doom Emacs is like Spacemacs were access to commands are activa…

> Having something like that for NeoVim would be extremely nice. With new versions of Emacs having Wayland and Native Compilation it has improved performance significantly, but I don't think it will ever approach to just how fast NeoVim can be. Always good to remind that emacsclient makes starting an Emacs frame/window instantaneous.

As someone who is fluent (but rather more emacs) in both I got to say neovim is much faster to use and not just to start. Emacs does a lot more tho so I don't think it's a fair comparaison....

Still enjoying switching between both,

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#13

Post by tconfrey »

preek wrote: post #11
tconfrey wrote: post #8

This is very exciting. IMO the Tools For Thought (#TFT) ecosystem is crying out for a standard interchange format to break down the silos. Org-mode could be that format. It's not just an outliner format, it's the best markup[1] and supports pretty much everything you need for journaling/task-management/project-management etc. What's been missing thus far is a single canonical definition that everyone can build on (be…

All good points. As a daily user of Org mode, I couldn’t agree more. Hence, we are working on building a parser that also acts as a canonical definition here: https://github.com/200ok-ch/org-parser

Thanks @preek. I mentioned you guys in [3] above. BTW I'm actually using this parser: https://github.com/orgapp/orgajs for my product (https://braintool.org), so there are other choices. I guess the key thing is a single well defined grammar.

Is GDrive syncing working in Organice these days? I've wanted to demonstrate interop with BrainTool (which syncs to GDrive files) but last I checked there was some bug.

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#14

Post by scottrblock »

tconfrey wrote: post #8

This is very exciting. IMO the Tools For Thought (#TFT) ecosystem is crying out for a standard interchange format to break down the silos. Org-mode could be that format. It's not just an outliner format, it's the best markup[1] and supports pretty much everything you need for journaling/task-management/project-management etc. What's been missing thus far is a single canonical definition that everyone can build on (be…

I agree! I'm the creator of phonetonote [1], which tries to integrate with different tools for thought. I just started a `tft-interop` repo [2] with similar goals. We're just getting started thinking through how to make the TFT structures (edn mostly) more interoperable. I'm not personally an org-mode user, but agree it could be a good format to parse these trees in and out of. I've mostly been thinking about OPML so far. Feel free to hop into the discussions where we're sorting through these ideas — https://github.com/phonetonote/tft-interop/discussions/2

[1] https://phonetonote.com [2] https://github.com/phonetonote/tft-interop/

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#15

Post by altgans »

tconfrey wrote: post #8

This is very exciting. IMO the Tools For Thought (#TFT) ecosystem is crying out for a standard interchange format to break down the silos. Org-mode could be that format. It's not just an outliner format, it's the best markup[1] and supports pretty much everything you need for journaling/task-management/project-management etc. What's been missing thus far is a single canonical definition that everyone can build on (be…

Imo the problem with Org-mode is that it "afterloads" all the complexity into the :PROPERTIES: drawers. Those quickly transform into unreadable hideous beasts of metadata that _require_ you to use Emacs. Every plugin developer likes to create their own set of properties, which directly leads to the problem of "multiple Markdown flavours". Extensibility is not always good.

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#16

Post by omaranto »

justinhj wrote: post #10
lazyier wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find being able to open + edit notes quickly helps my thought process more, I use org with roam in Doom Emacs. The org roam notes directory is backed by git. https://www.orgroam.com/ It allows for using a Zettelkasten style approach to note taking inside of Emacs. The basic idea is small quick notes that are cross referenced, indexed, and searchable. Doom Emacs is like Spacemacs were access to commands are activa…

I’m a long time emacs and org-mode user but I switched to neovim for 90% of my development work. I still use emacs for org-mode and I doubt I would ever use org-mode in neovim because it relies on being implemented in the entire emacs system and the emacs lisp language . Nothing short of embedding emacs on neovim would make it tenable. I have the same problem in the other direction, viper is not a substitute for neov…

> I have the same problem in the other direction, viper is not a substitute for neovim.

You should give Evil a try, people say it's much better than Viper. At the very least Evil emulates Vim, while Viper just emulates vi.

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#17

Post by sfink »

Offtopic, but I use org mode for my notes files (both general and technical), and I've never really figured out how to use it effectively.

My pre-org notes file was just a giant text file with entries delimited by manually-entered '--------------' lines. I stuck a topic in each entry for searchability and then the rest was freeform text. It worked pretty well.

org mode gives me more power, but it's getting a little unmanageable. I find myself expanding and collapsing sections a lot, especially when just trying to find the right place to add a new entry. (I'm using a hierarchy rather than the flat append-only list.) The file is pretty huge at this point, and I split it up once but that broke my most common usage of just isearching through the entire file, and it was annoying to have to load multiple files to do a complete search. I had links between files, but that didn't help for searching.

I imagine there are tips and tricks to resolve all of my issues and nuisances, but I've never taken the time to figure them out. Is there a good workflow description somewhere that I should be looking at? It's hard to beat a basic text file, but after a decade or so it has gotten pretty big and I'd like to eg be able to cluster related things together so I can purge obsolete stuff.

Maybe my problem is that org mode is intended for organizing things, and my use case is too free-form?

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#18

Post by hnrj95 »

sfink wrote: post #17

Offtopic, but I use org mode for my notes files (both general and technical), and I've never really figured out how to use it effectively. My pre-org notes file was just a giant text file with entries delimited by manually-entered '--------------' lines. I stuck a topic in each entry for searchability and then the rest was freeform text. It worked pretty well. org mode gives me more power, but it's getting a little u…

try org roam

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#19

Post by tconfrey »

altgans wrote: post #15
tconfrey wrote: post #8

This is very exciting. IMO the Tools For Thought (#TFT) ecosystem is crying out for a standard interchange format to break down the silos. Org-mode could be that format. It's not just an outliner format, it's the best markup[1] and supports pretty much everything you need for journaling/task-management/project-management etc. What's been missing thus far is a single canonical definition that everyone can build on (be…

Imo the problem with Org-mode is that it "afterloads" all the complexity into the :PROPERTIES: drawers. Those quickly transform into unreadable hideous beasts of metadata that _require_ you to use Emacs. Every plugin developer likes to create their own set of properties, which directly leads to the problem of "multiple Markdown flavours". Extensibility is not always good.

Thats a fair point. But I'd argue that as long as there's a large enough core of agreed upon functionality having app-specific data packed away and carried for free (as plain text) is not a bad thing.

My app, for example, sticks a couple of useful pieces of data in properties but when it creates a TODO item or adds a [[link]] or *heading that semantic meaning is available to any other outliner or task management app using the same backing store.

I guess the argument is that org-mode encompasses a large enough set of core components that its the best place to standardize what can be standard in this PKM/Productivity/TFT space.

Re: Tree-sitter grammar for org-mode

#20

Post by drunkpotato »

sfink wrote: post #17

Offtopic, but I use org mode for my notes files (both general and technical), and I've never really figured out how to use it effectively. My pre-org notes file was just a giant text file with entries delimited by manually-entered '--------------' lines. I stuck a topic in each entry for searchability and then the rest was freeform text. It worked pretty well. org mode gives me more power, but it's getting a little u…

I have a daily.org file I use to capture meeting notes and quick notes into. org-mode automatically keeps it organized as a datetree. I set all my other org files to archive into a subheader of the day it's archived (or done, for todos). So far I like it, but I've only been doing it for a few months. We'll see when it gets to years.

One nice thing is it's easy to see at a glance roughly what I did in a given week or month. It also doesn't insert much process into my flow, which I appreciate.

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