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Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

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Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#11

> Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. As an individual, free software is valuable for a me if I can modify it at will, say at most with one month work and without having to learn arcane techniques. However this is not the case most of the time, so using free software not so different from using a propr…

Why continue using that free software, given the issues, if it doesn't fit your definition of valuable free software?

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#12
Increasing the availability of useful tools to anyone interested in software development and computing / technology in general is where I think FOSS has excelled.

A simple example might be a free, open-source blueprint for a typewriter. People can improve the blueprint, anyone can use it. Now, to build an actual typewriter based on this blueprint, there's where individual investment of time and money is required - but anyone can do it, there's no patent lawyer waiting to halt that process.

Note also that branding and reliability do matter even in open-source. Two typewriter manufacturers working off the same open-source blueprint could make very different quality typewriters, and the one with the better reputation has a market edge (just not one based on exclusive access to some old IP).

Now, let's say you use the typewriter to create a best-selling novel. Here the creator should be able to retain rights to the novel, and since good writers are not all that common, the notion that the novel should be free and open-source doesn't really work that well if we want to have writers making a living and continuing to write. An alternative approach, such as a state-sponsored program to support authors, or a billionaire-financed private foundation program, would quickly become little more than a propaganda factory.

The kind of scenario that gave rise to the open-source movement might be described as the notion that authors who used a propriety typewriter to write their novel owe a fraction of their revenue to the typewriter blueprint owner. The whole Oracle-Google-Java-Android business comes to mind for example.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#13
post #11

> Roughly, it means that the users have the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software. Thus, “free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. As an individual, free software is valuable for a me if I can modify it at will, say at most with one month work and without having to learn arcane techniques. However this is not the case most of the time, so using free software not so different from using a propr…

Why continue using that free software, given the issues, if it doesn't fit your definition of valuable free software?

I am not complaining, I am answering to "Free software as the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software."

This is just not true for most modern open source software.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#14
I believe in free software but I do not like GNU and FSF zealotry.

See: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html

"Debian also maintains a repository of nonfree software. According to the project, this software is 'not part of the Debian system,' but the repository is hosted on many of the project's main servers, and people can readily find these nonfree packages by browsing Debian's online package database and its wiki."

So Debian isn't kosher because it's too easy to load non-free software?

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#15
I'm not a programmer so I can't practically exercise my user freedoms.

If I was a programmer, I also couldn't practically exercise my user freedoms for most of the software I use. Maybe one programmer could maintain a fork of vim, but it takes a small company to maintain a true fork of larger projects like Firefox, Chromium, and LibreOffice.

If you want control over your workflow, a program with a stable extensions API will go a lot farther than a free software license.

I prefer free software because it is gratis and doesn't spy on me.

Anyone here with some experience single-handedly maintaining a fork of a large project?

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#17
I believe in a Free Software. At the same time I do not believe at the Free Software.

Without a way to pay for work of developers no software can be good enough. So in a way I do not believe in a FS. But I believe that we need to find a way to a Free Software, and that it can be found.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why continue using that free software, given the issues, if it doesn't fit your definition of valuable free software?

I am not complaining, I am answering to "Free software as the freedom to ...study, change and improve the software. " This is just not true for most modern open source software.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were complaining. I was just curious where else you feel the value lies in that software, if freedom isn't it?

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#19

I'm not a programmer so I can't practically exercise my user freedoms. If I was a programmer, I also couldn't practically exercise my user freedoms for most of the software I use. Maybe one programmer could maintain a fork of vim, but it takes a small company to maintain a true fork of larger projects like Firefox, Chromium, and LibreOffice. If you want control over your workflow, a program with a stable extensions A…

Having the option to exercise your freedoms (or, say, contract someone to do so, or band together with other users to do this) is an important protection for you as a user, even if you will not directly exercise it yourself. It can for example inform the relationship the original vendor has with you, and how they treat you.

"But I'm never going to patch it anyway" is a bit like "Privacy? But I have no secrets", which implies you will never have secrets and don't want to have the option to, even if external factors not under your control change.

By the same token, just the mere existence of free alternatives does a lot to keep developers of non-free software honest in some cases, even if they don't gain competitive market share.

OTOH, ironically the existence of free software has also let the developers of non-free software off the hook in important ways. For example, if you look at any large proprietary software maker, you will often find that their most skilled engineers are the ones with experience developing free software - because they have additional years of high-density experience that companies fail to provide an equivalent environment for (low incentives to mentor, more extreme specialization, etc.). So proprietary development shops have had to be far less sustainable wrt/ training and recruiting because the community has picked up the slack. Which I'm not sure is a good thing - healthy teaching relationships and learning opportunities for experts on the one hand, business models and competitive salary on the other, rather than both in one spot.

Re: Ask HN: Do you believe in GNU's Free Software?

#20
The following is strictly related to my thoughts on getting software developed and distributed (i.e., funding / incentive models for building an maintaining the software).

My personal views -- it really depends on what the software is for. In the case of foundational software (OS, libraries, utilities) then Free software has some major advantages that outweigh the disadvantages. The disadvantages of Free software come from the lack of paying customers that fund development. But in the above use case many of the primary users are also developers, who have an incentive for contributing back improvements. (In the case of OS an Libraries, I consider the primary users to be developers, as end-users use software that runs on top of this foundation, even though users also use the OS, they typically primarily use it to execute other applications).

For the next layer above, you have applications software. If the app is aimed towards businesses, then the funding model of businesses licensing the software from a vendor with a pool of developers seems to have positive returns, that outweigh the potential contributions that can come up from making the code follow the four Software Freedoms. Same may apply if the app is aimed at non-technical users. For apps aimed at technical users, many of these can fall under the previous category of foundational software.

The next category is entertainment related software. This I consider almost equivalent to books, a movie, or music. Most of the value is in the creative side, vs the technical side. Therefore Software Freedom applied to a game brings not much more value than the same type of Freedom applied to a blockbuster movie.

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