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Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

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Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#11

Post by inductive_magic »

0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

From someone who hasn't interacted with the startup world much yet: what are some problems companies in Europe would have to deal with? What liberties are exclusive to the US? I'd imagine lots of complications of running a US-based company within Europe.

I can't imagine moving to the US, and I'm sure that lots of smart people in the EU are in the same camp. At the same time, I'd be very interested in providing high value to and being part of a company with the velocity and dynamics of a start-up -- I just wouldn't move to the US to pursue the opportunity, as in: I'd not even consider it below ridiculous/unrealistic pay.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#12

Post by 0xfaded »

andy_ppp wrote: post #7
0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

Yes same, even if I don’t get into YC I’ll be trying to raise on US terms. I’ve seen some really stupid startups in Europe end up with crazy dilution to the point where if they thought about it they’d realise they just had a job working for some rich people. US valuations are twice the amount for half the equity from what I’ve seen so why I wouldn’t do that rather than be screwed over I don’t know…

Make sure you incorporate in a form that US investors are comfortable with. Few investors are going to want to figure out what an ApS or GmH is just to make a seed investment in your tiny startup.

It also gives tou better exit potential in the event of a M&A.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#13

Post by allendoerfer »

darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

You are basically describing Germany. I try to put it on first-mover disadvantage to make me feel better: Basically Germany has had a relatively functioning administration for hundreds of years (Italy even for thousands). Compared to something you would design from scratch in 2022 it looks a bit archaic. I celebrate every little step forward.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#14

Post by lnxg33k1 »

santiagobasulto wrote: post #6
lnxg33k1 wrote: post #2

As Italian, when I read something involving Agnellis willing to do something for Italy, I am a bit scared about taxpayers money, like Fiat has always got tax discounts and subsidies and as a thank you has closed factories, and fired people, can we just keep the people related to Agnellis in the Silicon Valley?

Off topic! I just moved to Italy, living in Torino now. How's the startup ecosystem in Italy? I've seen some interesting Blockchain-related groups at the Politecnico, but not much after that.

I live in the Netherlands :D but am from Naples originally so I know little about Turin :'( sovvy

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#15

Post by albybisy »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #2

As Italian, when I read something involving Agnellis willing to do something for Italy, I am a bit scared about taxpayers money, like Fiat has always got tax discounts and subsidies and as a thank you has closed factories, and fired people, can we just keep the people related to Agnellis in the Silicon Valley?

this is what i think as well. When there is Agnelli family involved is just for have something from the state in some way or another. But we'll see. I hope to be wrong.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#16

Post by L_226 »

0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

I am doing this right now, Stripe Atlas Delaware C-corp but operating in Germany. I could have incorporated a GmbH for €25,000 (goes into an account to act as collateral against future liability) - which uses all my savings basically, or a UG for €1 - but then I can't add other shareholders until I pay an additional €25k to convert it to a GmbH. For my startup, which is capital intensive, I have no choice but to use the US system.

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#17

Post by macco »

0xfaded wrote: post #3

If I did another startup in Europe, I would incorporate in Delaware and raise US money from the get go. It's cool to see the YC terms borrowed directly, and hopefully that would be a shot across the bows of European investors. But to really give European founders leverage they need access to US valuations and terms. I think semi-philanthropic incubators like these could really help by guiding founders to form US enti…

This sounds interesting. Are there any prominent European startups who did go that route?

Would you like to write a blog post about it?

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#18

Post by lnxg33k1 »

darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

I think Italy is below Germany at a bureaucratic level, I am not fully convinced that bureaucracy is the main issue, I think the main issue is the lack of electronic and fast and reliable and documented ways to complete requirements

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#19

Post by lnxg33k1 »

bonzini wrote: post #8
darkwater wrote: post #5

Good luck with that, Italy and Italians are one of the most bureaucracy-obsessed country on the planet. You can think you own country has bureaucracy issues? Go check Italy, and it will be for sure worse. I mean, in 2022 AFAIK and still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch (I think t…

> still not every salaried person can have a default pre-compiled tax draft that they can just sign on the Internet and get approved. You have to go and compile it one from scratch This has changed several years ago. > you had to pay an annual tax to validate your passport Keyword being had . It's gone for like 10 years.

Yeah like I am not sure, when I was living in London, not being Schengen, at a certain point I got in mind to just go to "Questura" and make my electronic passport so that I could go through the fast automatic gate, I went there, paid the "Bollo", and I explained that I had to depart in a couple of days, and I just got the e-passport the morning I had to depart.. like it was blazing fast, I mean for my experience, getting passports in Italy is really a no-brainer

Re: Ferrari owner Exor wants to build the Italian Y Combinator

#20

Post by baybal2 »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #2

As Italian, when I read something involving Agnellis willing to do something for Italy, I am a bit scared about taxpayers money, like Fiat has always got tax discounts and subsidies and as a thank you has closed factories, and fired people, can we just keep the people related to Agnellis in the Silicon Valley?

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