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Coast on Clojure

coast.swlkr.com

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Re: Coast on Clojure

#11

Post by andrewzah »

gleenn wrote: post #3

I always struggle with the idea that "frameworks are bad, combine libraries instead," it makes sense and makes orthogonal libraries not step on each other or make things more complicated. The thing lost is having an easy time getting up and running quickly. I was always a big Liminus champion fir this reason, they tried really hard to group a good set of libraries and document it all well. Bur this work is also fanta…

Agreed, that's why I find it so difficult to leave rails/ruby. I really like Clojure+Datomic+Clojurescript but I can't justify the extra work needed compared to the extensive tooling and library support that rails has since it's mature and widely used.

Re: Coast on Clojure

#12

Post by adamkl »

dimitrios1 wrote: post #10
adamkl wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. There is a lot of value in the "easy, batteries included" solution which is why Rails gets so much love from the start-up community. The problem always seems to be that the same things that makes Rails easy to get started with ( cough ActiveRecord cough ) also make it easy to create foot-guns in the future (provided your start-up lasts long enough to get to that point). Combining a Rails like framework that ma…

I am going to butcher this, but my sense is this counter culture against the big heavy opinionated frameworks arose from that generation of programmers who in a sense "grew up" (career wise) on things like Rails. Like others have said, there eventually comes a time where you are fighting the framework more than the framework is providing value, and having learned the value of the abstractions and functionality throug…

Sounds like “create-react-app”. A bunch of libraries and configurations wrapped up in a “golden-path”.

Provides the “easy” for 95% of usecases and an “eject” button that unwraps everything and puts it under you control for the last 5%.

Re: Coast on Clojure

#13

Post by dimitrios1 »

adamkl wrote: post #12
dimitrios1 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to butcher this, but my sense is this counter culture against the big heavy opinionated frameworks arose from that generation of programmers who in a sense "grew up" (career wise) on things like Rails. Like others have said, there eventually comes a time where you are fighting the framework more than the framework is providing value, and having learned the value of the abstractions and functionality throug…

Sounds like “create-react-app”. A bunch of libraries and configurations wrapped up in a “golden-path”. Provides the “easy” for 95% of usecases and an “eject” button that unwraps everything and puts it under you control for the last 5%.

Create react app was one example I had in mind, I think Redwoodjs is another one that recently popped up.

Re: Coast on Clojure

#14

Post by swlkr »

Always nice when one of my projects makes it to the front page!

I haven’t worked on this one much lately, but I’m happy to answer any questions!

Re: Coast on Clojure

#15

Post by janetacarr »

This is cool, but, aside from error messages, it resembles Clojure's biggest problem right now: Everyone keeps trying to re-invent the wheel with respect to creating the "Rails" for Clojure.

We have several production grade libraries and frameworks for serving webpages. Reitit(router), yada(http standards), bidi(router), aleph (netty wrapper), ring (jetty wrapper), pedestal (bundle of libraries), luminus (self described micro-framework), the list goes on, yet Clojure's biggest pain point is the lack of other production grade libraries for other/mundane things.

If the libraries do exist, they can barely cut a stable release (like 2.0.0-alpha24) or keep up with changes to prevent software rot.

Re: Coast on Clojure

#16

Post by slowmovintarget »

adamkl wrote: post #4
gleenn wrote: post #3

I always struggle with the idea that "frameworks are bad, combine libraries instead," it makes sense and makes orthogonal libraries not step on each other or make things more complicated. The thing lost is having an easy time getting up and running quickly. I was always a big Liminus champion fir this reason, they tried really hard to group a good set of libraries and document it all well. Bur this work is also fanta…

Agree. There is a lot of value in the "easy, batteries included" solution which is why Rails gets so much love from the start-up community. The problem always seems to be that the same things that makes Rails easy to get started with ( cough ActiveRecord cough ) also make it easy to create foot-guns in the future (provided your start-up lasts long enough to get to that point). Combining a Rails like framework that ma…

To quote Rich Hickey: "gem install hairball"

Re: Coast on Clojure

#17

Post by mark_l_watson »

Thanks for posting this. I might want to give it a try with my very old 'smart' nutrition and cooking website [1] that I wrote in Clojure about 10 years ago and have not touched it in years. I wanted to update it a few years ago but the Clojure web libraries/frameworks I used are no longer supported.

[1] http://cookingspace.com

Re: Coast on Clojure

#18

Post by mtnygard »

janetacarr wrote: post #15

This is cool, but, aside from error messages, it resembles Clojure's biggest problem right now: Everyone keeps trying to re-invent the wheel with respect to creating the "Rails" for Clojure. We have several production grade libraries and frameworks for serving webpages. Reitit(router), yada(http standards), bidi(router), aleph (netty wrapper), ring (jetty wrapper), pedestal (bundle of libraries), luminus (self descri…

Looks like this is mostly Ring + Hiccup (https://github.com/coast-framework/coast/blob/master/deps.ed...>) with a DB connection pool.

Re: Coast on Clojure

#19

Post by curuinor »

cube2222 wrote: post #2

Slightly OT, but whenever I see Clojure projects I think: "I'd love to write something bigger in Clojure one day, experience it, and see if it's all it was promised to be." That said, I don't really have any good use case for it right now, whether at work, or among my side projects.

I'm a year and change into my job at metabase (metabase.com) writing clojure all day every day and I am still terribly surprised that basically it is all that it's promised to be.

That said, you do need to actually use the repl and be repling all the time because the startup times suck and the stack traces are gigantic all the time. That's pretty much it for complaints. You would expect things that aren't apparent in 30 minutes looking at the language to come up after an entire year, but nothing so far.

Re: Coast on Clojure

#20

Post by phyrex »

I loved Coast and wrote at least one production app with it (and very quickly and pleasantly at that), but it needs to be said that swlkr is the only developer, and he seems to have mostly moved on to Janet (https://janet-lang.org/). Case in point, the last real updates to Coast were 2 years ago, and - unlike other Clojure libraries - not because this project was /finished/.
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