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Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

airbnb.co.uk

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Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#11

Post by nofuture1 »

pvaldes wrote: post #9
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is curious how you think that one type of victims of same regime is more deserving than the other. Especially those Belorussians, just a few months ago they were fleeing from concentration camps, where they were tortured and raped, but now the situation is completely different, and the temporary houses they occupy would serve fleeing Ukrainian better.

Renting a house is not a right. The house owners can deny the access to the resource to anybody by reasons as having an ugly pet. But we aren't talking here about a noisy dog, we are talking about giving the keys to your home to citizens from two nations that in the last month had systematically bombed thousands of buildings, set fire and demolished millions of homes. Have burnt-down thousands of houses like yours. A…

Discrimination is explicitly forbidden by Airbnb: https://www.airbnb.com/against-discrimination

Please remember that even according to the official polls, at least 28,000,000 (20%) of Russian citizens do not support the war.

I feel the need to repeat this in every message: I am a Russian national, living outside of Russia, I do not pay taxes in Russia. I am strongly against war (this or any other). The war is causing massive death and destruction to the country where half of my friends come from, and indirectly to my own country. Regardless of that, I am ready to accept any hate coming towards me due to my place of birth.

Having said that, I am in the position to understand where people are coming from. My late great-grandfather hated not only the Nazis, but all Germans because of what they leaders did to his people. Decades after the war, he still wanted all Germans to die. I couldn't blame him, nor can I blame the rest of the world today.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#12

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

pvaldes wrote: post #9
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is curious how you think that one type of victims of same regime is more deserving than the other. Especially those Belorussians, just a few months ago they were fleeing from concentration camps, where they were tortured and raped, but now the situation is completely different, and the temporary houses they occupy would serve fleeing Ukrainian better.

Renting a house is not a right. The house owners can deny the access to the resource to anybody by reasons as having an ugly pet. But we aren't talking here about a noisy dog, we are talking about giving the keys to your home to citizens from two nations that in the last month had systematically bombed thousands of buildings, set fire and demolished millions of homes. Have burnt-down thousands of houses like yours. A…

Do I correctly understand that you are advocating for a collective punishment of all Russian and Belorussian people, 'because airbnb can't know who of them are murderers'.

So, for example if Airbnb will deny access to black people, because there are violent criminals among black people in the US, you would support such policy, too? If no, I'd love to hear your argument why it would be any different.

You do make many emotional appeals, describing the untold horrors inflicted upon Ukrainians, and to make up for that you suggest punishing my friend who resides in South Africa and hasn't been in Russia for almost 10 years now. She just had her booking cancelled in Kenya.

I would add to the absurdity of your position the simple fact that among Russians travelling abroad, the support of Putin's fascist regime is almost non-existent. (it was high among Russians living abroad, who liked the idea of him projecting the strongman image, but people who really experienced his regime knew better).

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#13

Post by pvaldes »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #12
pvaldes wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renting a house is not a right. The house owners can deny the access to the resource to anybody by reasons as having an ugly pet. But we aren't talking here about a noisy dog, we are talking about giving the keys to your home to citizens from two nations that in the last month had systematically bombed thousands of buildings, set fire and demolished millions of homes. Have burnt-down thousands of houses like yours. A…

Do I correctly understand that you are advocating for a collective punishment of all Russian and Belorussian people, 'because airbnb can't know who of them are murderers'. So, for example if Airbnb will deny access to black people, because there are violent criminals among black people in the US, you would support such policy, too? If no, I'd love to hear your argument why it would be any different. You do make many…

Again I don't have the 'right' to live in your house. I could buy this right if, and only if, you agree to rent me your property for a fee. You aren't "punishing me" if you don't want me to be allowed in your property. You have the right to do so. Is regulated by law and came with the ownership.

If there is a queue of buyers that look a much better candidates than me, why should you be forced to rent me your home?.

Airbnb can make any policy that they think is good for the company. They aren't a NGO. If you want to use it you need to accept their rules. Period.

Yes, life is unfair. Nobody would keep you from using another platform to rent your house. There is not such thing as the "right" to use the platform.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#14

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

pvaldes wrote: post #13
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I correctly understand that you are advocating for a collective punishment of all Russian and Belorussian people, 'because airbnb can't know who of them are murderers'. So, for example if Airbnb will deny access to black people, because there are violent criminals among black people in the US, you would support such policy, too? If no, I'd love to hear your argument why it would be any different. You do make many…

Again I don't have the 'right' to live in your house. I could buy this right if, and only if, you agree to rent me your property for a fee. You aren't "punishing me" if you don't want me to be allowed in your property. You have the right to do so. Is regulated by law and came with the ownership. If there is a queue of buyers that look a much better candidates than me, why should you be forced to rent me your home?. A…

You are dodging a very specific question. Airbnb is clearly discriminating against customers based on their ethnicity. What would you say if they'd discriminate against black people or Jews?

Of course, they'd lay out all the arguments supporting their position you kindly listed. Not having blacks is good for the company, why should homeowners be forced to let them in their homes. No-no, it's not punishing, just use another platform.

Would that be ok, or not?

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#15

Post by trasz »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #5
trasz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn’t apply to anything abroad, only to Russia and Belarus. And honestly, anything that can hurt Russia is fair at this point. Including whatever collateral damage.

It does apply to everything abroad. The version of this announcement in Russian [1] is far less ambiguous, and clearly says: "Гостям из России и Беларуси больше не доступно оформление бронирований на Airbnb." (Bookings on Airbnb are no longer available to guests from Russia and Belarus). This is also corroborated by first hand accounts of people who used the service after fleeing the country. And no, this doesn't hur…

Okay, this makes it questionable indeed. On one hand helping Russians fleeing the country is important, on the other hand - this might affect Russians on holidays, who are not fleeing anywhere, and in this aspect is a good thing.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#16

Post by pvaldes »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #14
pvaldes wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again I don't have the 'right' to live in your house. I could buy this right if, and only if, you agree to rent me your property for a fee. You aren't "punishing me" if you don't want me to be allowed in your property. You have the right to do so. Is regulated by law and came with the ownership. If there is a queue of buyers that look a much better candidates than me, why should you be forced to rent me your home?. A…

You are dodging a very specific question. Airbnb is clearly discriminating against customers based on their ethnicity. What would you say if they'd discriminate against black people or Jews? Of course, they'd lay out all the arguments supporting their position you kindly listed. Not having blacks is good for the company, why should homeowners be forced to let them in their homes. No-no, it's not punishing, just use a…

> Airbnb is clearly discriminating against customers based on their ethnicity [...] What would you say if they'd discriminate against black people

Not. Nationality is not ethnicity. The correct equivalent wouldn't be black people, would be not wanting to stand near any Hutu one month after the Rwandan genocide. That would be reasonable, and I would say exactly the same. War criminals can burn in hell, with Abu Ghraib torturers and the rest of the subhuman worms. Nobody owns they any love or respect.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#17

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

pvaldes wrote: post #16
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are dodging a very specific question. Airbnb is clearly discriminating against customers based on their ethnicity. What would you say if they'd discriminate against black people or Jews? Of course, they'd lay out all the arguments supporting their position you kindly listed. Not having blacks is good for the company, why should homeowners be forced to let them in their homes. No-no, it's not punishing, just use a…

> Airbnb is clearly discriminating against customers based on their ethnicity [...] What would you say if they'd discriminate against black people Not. Nationality is not ethnicity. The correct equivalent wouldn't be black people, would be not wanting to stand near any Hutu one month after the Rwandan genocide. That would be reasonable, and I would say exactly the same. War criminals can burn in hell, with Abu Ghraib…

Ah, ok, classical "this is different" excuse.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#18

Post by pvaldes »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #17
pvaldes wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Airbnb is clearly discriminating against customers based on their ethnicity [...] What would you say if they'd discriminate against black people Not. Nationality is not ethnicity. The correct equivalent wouldn't be black people, would be not wanting to stand near any Hutu one month after the Rwandan genocide. That would be reasonable, and I would say exactly the same. War criminals can burn in hell, with Abu Ghraib…

Ah, ok, classical "this is different" excuse.

Because it is, and even subtle differences count here a lot.

If I'm not wrong, People with Russian ethnicity and Ukranian (or Latvian, or Moldavan) citizenship are still allowed to use Airbnb, therefore your former claim is false. Most of the older people living there had born in the USSR in fact and many of them are still allowed to use the platform.

This is not a problem of race or of "Airbnb wants to cancel my culture". This is a consequence of sanctions, that are in turn a consequence of invading a country to start a genocide and destroy and loot as many as possible.

Companies are free to not operate in every country of the planet, and can close their office in North Korea or Russia, or stop doing business with anybody, at any time, by any reason. I can understand that in some countries the boundaries between companies and government are blurred, but is not the case of AirBnb.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#19

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

pvaldes wrote: post #18
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, ok, classical "this is different" excuse.

Because it is, and even subtle differences count here a lot. If I'm not wrong, People with Russian ethnicity and Ukranian (or Latvian, or Moldavan) citizenship are still allowed to use Airbnb, therefore your former claim is false. Most of the older people living there had born in the USSR in fact and many of them are still allowed to use the platform. This is not a problem of race or of "Airbnb wants to cancel my cul…

Of course this is nonsense what you say about nations. But it pales in comparison to this:

> This is a consequence of sanctions, that are in turn a consequence of invading a country to start a genocide and destroy and loot as many as possible.

So you are calling for the punishment of people who have protested the criminal regimes and had to flee Russia and Belarus to save their lives? Just yesterday there was an assessment on Twitter that advancement on Kiev stalled because Belarus partisans kept disrupting railway lines. Now you support AirBnb decision to refuse those partisans service, if they'd ever need to escape the country. That's .. just wow.

When I was young, I thought how could it be that European countries have turned their backs on Jews fleeing the Nazi Germany. But now I see a lot of that very kind of people, very content with their virtue now they 'punished' evil russians.

Hint: If you really want to force Putin to stop the war, tell EU and US governments to stop buying oil and gas from Putin for hundreds of billions of euros every year.

Re: Suspension of Airbnb Operations in Russia and Belarus

#20

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

trasz wrote: post #15
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does apply to everything abroad. The version of this announcement in Russian [1] is far less ambiguous, and clearly says: "Гостям из России и Беларуси больше не доступно оформление бронирований на Airbnb." (Bookings on Airbnb are no longer available to guests from Russia and Belarus). This is also corroborated by first hand accounts of people who used the service after fleeing the country. And no, this doesn't hur…

Okay, this makes it questionable indeed. On one hand helping Russians fleeing the country is important, on the other hand - this might affect Russians on holidays, who are not fleeing anywhere, and in this aspect is a good thing.

Some Russian journalist made an inquiry, and reportedly Airbnb clarified that Russian and Belorussian will be able to book via Airbnb abroad, but the statements on their website remains unchanged.
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