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Bucha Massacre

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Re: Bucha Massacre

#11

Post by jesterson »

mihaigalos wrote: post #9
jesterson wrote: post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

You attribute too much intellect to the grunt on the ground. Nobody thinks like that after fighting in the war, they might die tomorrow. Who else might have "done it"? Ukrainians themselves? What a very bad joke.

That's right, although we need not to let emotions prevail and at least ask for independent investigation.

I have no knowledge who did it because I haven't seen any investigation yet. And yes, I wouldn't rule out anything. War is ugly, people do ugly things. It's not a fight of angels with demons.

Re: Bucha Massacre

#12

Post by jesterson »

emptysongglass wrote: post #10
jesterson wrote: post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

These are Ukrainians found tortured, mutilated, raped and killed, not Russians. There is plenty of evidence in the linked article. Please don't do this here.

> Please don't do this here.

What makes you think you can give advices on what people should or shouldn't do here?

If you don't need proper investigation to figure out who actually did that - it's your choice. But don't try to censor those who think not like you.

Re: Bucha Massacre

#13

Post by aaron695 »

ncmncm wrote: post #3

But why specifically in Bucha? Is this about Russians being obliged to retreat, and committing atrocities on the way out? Or is this going on in other places Russians still hold, and we only found it about it in Bucha, specifically, because they are out? Can we expect similar revelations in each place they are forced out of?

This Wikipedia article and most reporting is a mess.

"Mayor Anatoly Fedoruk, "hundreds of Russian soldiers" were also among the bodies" - so you will also expect hundreds of dead Ukrainians who fought to be buried in the mass grave. That is not a "massacre", that would be war.

We know the media constantly lies about mass graves and what they are, see the Canadian schools or New York and Hart Island.

What they do seem to have evidence of is very bad for Russia. So Russia lost control of the troops in the area. It should have not happened or should have been cleaned up. So far Russia seems to have structurally failed everywhere, so I'd expect more of this.

There seems to be no evidence Chechens were in the area. That would be an alternate explanation of why Russia couldn't control these troops.

Re: Bucha Massacre

#15

Post by lizardactivist »

A truly independent investigation is what is needed. And the U.S. hypocrisy statements is not helping Ukraine's case one bit, like Anthony Blinken promising to hold perpetrators accountable. How about cleaning your own house first?

Again, an independent investigation is what we must ask for.

Re: Bucha Massacre

#16

Post by lizardactivist »

emptysongglass wrote: post #10
jesterson wrote: post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

These are Ukrainians found tortured, mutilated, raped and killed, not Russians. There is plenty of evidence in the linked article. Please don't do this here.

Though the early information states that there were bodies of "hundreds of Russian soldiers", found when the Ukrainian forces eventually arrived to the area.

Re: Bucha Massacre

#17

Post by jesterson »

derbOac wrote: post #14
jesterson wrote: post #8

Quoted post unavailable.

Putting aside the need for investigation I fail to understand how it "wouldn't be Russia in any way."

Perhaps you won't be failing to understand if you read it once again - the part "wouldn't be Russia in any way" refers to benefitting from crimes. I never said Russia actually commit or didn't commit those crimes, it's simply not enough evidence to say for sure.

Re: Bucha Massacre

#19

Post by wrp »

mediumsmart wrote: post #18

[flagged]

Even if this turns out not to be the true chain of events, at least this is an attempt to get at the facts rather than venting. I read HN to find comments that try to make a concrete contribution to our knowledge. So, please folks, more.
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