Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data • Hacker News Board

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#11

Post by peppermint_tea » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

FreeHugs wrote: post #3

Thought experiment: What if we just continue like we did in the last two decades? Would there be any real harm if we simply returned to the pre "cookie banner world" of the internet?

the internet is more than browsers and http, we have email, irc, sftp, torrents and lots of other cool stuff that I would hate to see centralized in the hands of a few private companies and serve to the masses with browser, mandatory https and google tag manager all in order to track people behaviors.

I feel like promoting alternatives is a better idea than participating in the creation of a dystopian future for the generations to come.

out of question for me to just "let it slide", we have too much to loose here

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#12

Post by ouid » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 3:58 PM UTC

If you're being served ads on the internet, just install ublock origin.

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#13

Post by Clubber » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 3:59 PM UTC

judge2020 wrote: post #10

ls65536 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy may not be a goal in itself, but it sure would be painful to wake up one day and realise one has given it up for perhaps more trivial and ephemeral "benefits" along the way, especially if this took place relatively slowly over many years. Privacy (among other things like personal freedom, health, etc.) really seems to be one of those things many people take for granted until they realise they have lost it, or…

For this to matter there will have to be a turning point event that causes masses of people to re-think their privacy. The NSA reveal didn’t do much because nobody was financially or socially affected; maybe if the dataset itself was leaked and anyone could search it, we’d see real repercussions and changes made to stop any sort of surveillance (think the Congresspeople being personally affected by the data leak), bu…

I think most people are busy just trying to make ends meet. I have a family member who said, "Obama fixed the NSA thing." I also read where the Patriot Act expires, so they aren't doing it anymore.

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#14

Post by shadowgovt » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:02 PM UTC

wintermutestwin wrote: post #4

1. Some amount of yesterday's data is "yesterday's news" 2. Any reduction of data theft is progress 3. As a greybeard, I care more about the next and future generation's loss of privacy and impending totalitarian enslavement. In a capitalistic system, people should be able to charge what they want for their commodities. My data is worth more than the thieves could pay.

Aren't you handing that data out for free by using their servers?

Seems like you aren't happy with the price they charge for access.

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#15

Post by rapnie » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:08 PM UTC

narush wrote: post #7

This is a cool article. I like the narrative of "Change to a life where you are in control of your direction." I am probably the most privacy conscious person of my friends (not that I do a particularly good job of it), so I spent lots of time thinking about how to communicate about privacy in a way that is effective. [We're all mid-twenties, for context.] The main issue, I find, is that people just mostly don't care…

Explaining social cooling might also work with your friends:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24627363

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#16

Post by bdominy » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

Identity theft, scams, robocalls, spam, etc. all get started by harvesting people’s personal information. It’s a commodity hackers trade for big bucks. The question is how to protect yourself? I use end-to-end encryption wherever possible, so WhatsApp for chats and Neucards for contact sharing. It makes collecting my data much tougher.

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#17

Post by wintermutestwin » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:24 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #14

wintermutestwin wrote: post #4

1. Some amount of yesterday's data is "yesterday's news" 2. Any reduction of data theft is progress 3. As a greybeard, I care more about the next and future generation's loss of privacy and impending totalitarian enslavement. In a capitalistic system, people should be able to charge what they want for their commodities. My data is worth more than the thieves could pay.

Aren't you handing that data out for free by using their servers? Seems like you aren't happy with the price they charge for access.

I believe that is a disingenuous argument:

1. The monopolistic position of many of these service providers drastically limits the ability to choose alternatives and creates social and economic hardships for those who would avoid the use of these services altogether. For example, my ISP lobbied my government to allow them to steal my data. I have exactly one choice of ISP.

2. When we look back on the colonizers handing the natives trinkets in exchange for land, we consider that egregious theft. Most people lack any real understanding of the price that they are paying for these services and the intrinsic value of their data. They also lack an understanding of how this data can and will be used against them now and in the future.

3. And what about the data thieves who build shadow profiles on people who have not signed up for their services? (e.g. Facecrook)

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#18

Post by spansoa » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:27 PM UTC

I used to have a large online presence pre-Snowden leaks and was signed up to hundreds of services, some even in my legal name. Gradually I attempted to 'go dark' and delete all those accounts, which was tedious, but worth it.

There's two extremes to being online: you can wear your heart on your shirt sleeve and post under your legal name, and share details about your private life, or you can be a ghost and leave no traces, or at least minimize your footprint.

There is this thing: some people are just so famous online, that reverting back to some private mode is nearly impossible for them. They're so out there and involved with so many services, that 'going dark' for them would be very difficult, but there are steps you can take to minimize your footprint. It's not too late to take those initial steps.

I encourage everyone to attempt to 'go dark' gradually and make it very expensive for people to dox you. If you turn it into a game, it's even better. I said it was tedious, but honestly I kind of like becoming a ghost. I'm so opaque to big tech now, that it must really piss them off, including dragnet surveillance.

It's not a life for everyone however, and sometimes I have to participate in big tech like using my smartphone to do online banking, or buying something on Amazon, but 99% of my activities online are all more-or-less anonymous and private now, and I'm happy with that.

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#19

Post by goodpoint » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:33 PM UTC

FreeHugs wrote: post #3

Thought experiment: What if we just continue like we did in the last two decades? Would there be any real harm if we simply returned to the pre "cookie banner world" of the internet?

Ever heard of Cambridge Analytica and brexit?

Re: Why to care about privacy after years of sharing data

#20

Post by gonehome » Sun, Apr 03, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

spansoa wrote: post #18

I used to have a large online presence pre-Snowden leaks and was signed up to hundreds of services, some even in my legal name. Gradually I attempted to 'go dark' and delete all those accounts, which was tedious, but worth it. There's two extremes to being online: you can wear your heart on your shirt sleeve and post under your legal name, and share details about your private life, or you can be a ghost and leave no…

I think there's an accessible middle ground for most people.

My first suggestion would be to get every account in a password manager like 1Password. In addition to the obvious security benefits, this creates a record of where all your accounts are. For the average person it'll take time for them to remember everything (and they'll realize ones they forgot) - having a place for it all to get documented is the first step.

Once you have that, the next step is to go through every account and close the ones you don't need. After that, go into the ones you do need and modify the settings to disable as much of the tracking as possible.

I'd also suggest people sign up for deleteme: https://joindeleteme.com/ since these public data collectors can't be stopped without continued effort and I don't think there will be laws to stop them anytime soon.

For more technical users, I'd suggest they get their own domain and use fastmail with aliased emails for each account - but realistically regular people will not do that.

There are also advantages to having a public presence online (both professional and personal) - the issue isn't so much that you need to be 100% dark, it's that your public presence should be under your own control. One of the reasons I'm excited about Urbit is because it has the potential to give this control back in a way that could actually work.

I think culturally we also need to be more understanding of people making mistakes as the grow up and saying stupid things as they learn, but that's somewhat of an orthogonal issue so I'll leave it there.