On the contrary. Take a punch-card, stick it in your 029 keypunch, and add 80 bytes of information to it by typing away. Now it weighs less than when you started. Information has negative mass.
counter example. consider that instead of punching out the holes, you added an ink blot, the ink is somehow reflective and thus is read by the machine (or whatever). as the ink has a weight it now weighs more than when you started. Information has regular mass. hence some prior assumption is mistaken and we could now prove something by contradiction. now then, somebody please tell me if a proof by contradiction holds…
Information Has Mass
11–20 of 23 posts
Re: Information Has Mass
#12On the contrary. Take a punch-card, stick it in your 029 keypunch, and add 80 bytes of information to it by typing away. Now it weighs less than when you started. Information has negative mass.
Re: Information Has Mass
#13On the contrary. Take a punch-card, stick it in your 029 keypunch, and add 80 bytes of information to it by typing away. Now it weighs less than when you started. Information has negative mass.
Re: Information Has Mass
#14On the contrary. Take a punch-card, stick it in your 029 keypunch, and add 80 bytes of information to it by typing away. Now it weighs less than when you started. Information has negative mass.
counter example. consider that instead of punching out the holes, you added an ink blot, the ink is somehow reflective and thus is read by the machine (or whatever). as the ink has a weight it now weighs more than when you started. Information has regular mass. hence some prior assumption is mistaken and we could now prove something by contradiction. now then, somebody please tell me if a proof by contradiction holds…
Re: Information Has Mass
#15This paper feels very unconvincing. It seems to just assume that there is some intrinsic entropy inside a particle which, by virtue of their annihilation, must be released. I'm fairly sure that is not at all what the Landauer limit is talking about. This cited paper https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0064475 comes up a with a number and says it's intrinsic in each particle, but.. that just seems so sketchy. The…
Re: Information Has Mass
#16This paper feels very unconvincing. It seems to just assume that there is some intrinsic entropy inside a particle which, by virtue of their annihilation, must be released. I'm fairly sure that is not at all what the Landauer limit is talking about. This cited paper https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0064475 comes up a with a number and says it's intrinsic in each particle, but.. that just seems so sketchy. The…
Could you explain why you phrased it this way, as opposed to e.g. "I find this paper very unconvincing."?
This isn't a critique; I'm just trying to understand a recent drift in language, and if/how it corresponds to a difference in the underlying thinking.
In my upbringing, there's a strong delineation between "thinking" and "feeling". In that view, thinking is mostly about propositions, ideas, and logic; feeling is mostly about emotions.
My best guess is that "... feels ...", as used above, is meant to express a uncertainty about what follows.
Re: Information Has Mass
#17This paper feels very unconvincing. It seems to just assume that there is some intrinsic entropy inside a particle which, by virtue of their annihilation, must be released. I'm fairly sure that is not at all what the Landauer limit is talking about. This cited paper https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0064475 comes up a with a number and says it's intrinsic in each particle, but.. that just seems so sketchy. The…
> This paper feels very unconvincing. Could you explain why you phrased it this way, as opposed to e.g. "I find this paper very unconvincing."? This isn't a critique; I'm just trying to understand a recent drift in language, and if/how it corresponds to a difference in the underlying thinking. In my upbringing, there's a strong delineation between "thinking" and "feeling". In that view, thinking is mostly about propo…
Re: Information Has Mass
#18On the contrary. Take a punch-card, stick it in your 029 keypunch, and add 80 bytes of information to it by typing away. Now it weighs less than when you started. Information has negative mass.
Re: Information Has Mass
#19This paper feels very unconvincing. It seems to just assume that there is some intrinsic entropy inside a particle which, by virtue of their annihilation, must be released. I'm fairly sure that is not at all what the Landauer limit is talking about. This cited paper https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0064475 comes up a with a number and says it's intrinsic in each particle, but.. that just seems so sketchy. The…
> This paper feels very unconvincing. Could you explain why you phrased it this way, as opposed to e.g. "I find this paper very unconvincing."? This isn't a critique; I'm just trying to understand a recent drift in language, and if/how it corresponds to a difference in the underlying thinking. In my upbringing, there's a strong delineation between "thinking" and "feeling". In that view, thinking is mostly about propo…
I don't actually like the way I phrased it. When I re-read the post I thought it was a bit awkward. It uses too many soft words -- both "feel" and "convince". I am trying to remember to not write that way, with so many heavily qualified and disclaimed opinions. The use of the word 'feel' is the wishy-washy hedge that I really don't like here, but yes, it is trying to disclaim and the certainty of the point, to sound less imperious. (It's also an awkward word because the phrase "the paper feels" is awkward English. Papers don't feel. It makes sense in context but still sticks out like a sore thumb.)
This habit has been infected the way I write everything over time and I don't think it's necessary. It's redundant: it's implied that everything someone writes is their 'take' on the matter. And it reflects trying to write exactly the words you would say if you were speaking, instead of using the slightly different language of written English, which doesn't need so many qualifications. I think the older I get the more I forget how written English works, like I'm losing touch with how to sentences that aren't just transcribed speech.
Although, there are some subtle differences in the connotations of a few ways of phrasing the point.
* " This paper feels very unconvincing" -> the paper has a quality of in its text, which anyone could recognize.
* " I find this paper unconvincing" -> the unconvincingness is a quality of my body of knowledge.
* "I'm not unconvinced by this paper" -> the unconvincingness is a quality of how I reacted to it.
* "This paper is wrong" -> I have really good information that the paper is wrong, it's not just a layperson's hunch. I don't have a physics PhD and I've never felt like a person who is fully allowed to say things like this, even though I am pretty sure it's true.
* "This paper feels wrong to me" -> same thing but with one of those disclaimer words to undermine the claim.
Re: Information Has Mass
#20This paper feels very unconvincing. It seems to just assume that there is some intrinsic entropy inside a particle which, by virtue of their annihilation, must be released. I'm fairly sure that is not at all what the Landauer limit is talking about. This cited paper https://aip.scitation.org/doi/10.1063/5.0064475 comes up a with a number and says it's intrinsic in each particle, but.. that just seems so sketchy. The…
"Modelled" is exactly it. It's a mapping of meaning to changes in various states. Not an expert and I know counterintuitive phenomena exist, but at bottom it makes way more sense that information is the effect of energy, not the cause of mass. It's a property of energy transfer that incidentally requires you to take into account the existence of some entity to interpret/record/act on it. So how can such a thing as in…
If a bit exists but there's no one to encode it, does it inform?
Seems like a lot of what we think of as information is really "potential information" along the lines of potential energy.
Also surprising lack of quantum physics in the article.
I'd be interested in what someone in the field of quantum physics or computation would have to say about these issues.
I do research in information theory but in a totally different way.