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Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

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Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#11

Post by oneoff786 »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #4
jmyeet wrote: post #3

This makes me sad. I think loot boxes with RNG rewards are a disgusting practice. It's gambling that minors are allowed to do. One of the things I respect Epic Games for is they didn't follow this profitable path for Fortnite. In Fortnite, you want the skin, you buy the skin. You don't buy a ton of boxes and hope to get lucky. Gambling with an immediate result is bad. It's particularly bad for children. But it's also…

Fortnite is its own evil. They only show an extremely small fraction of the items available each day, with no indication of whether they'll return, so that you feel you have to buy things now in case you never have the chance again.

I don’t have any interest in fortnite but I don’t follow why this is bad. These are just skins right? Like no differentiation besides personal aesthetic preference? Couldn’t these be sold with no ambiguity, never ever coming back, and have literally no impact on your desire to buy?

Have you ever felt a desire to buy a shirt because it won’t be available to purchase again?

Is there really a world where they say “this asset is for sale today and in 28 days” and you say “oh good I will want to be it then but not now”?

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#12

Post by icu »

ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #8

This is so disheartening. I work as an admin in a school that serves all grades, and the impact that this stuff has on kids is very real. I've witnessed first-hand a grown in sort of a "gambling" culture amongst kids, as early as elementary school. While loads of us may have had fun experiences trading cards and whatnot, this all still happens with kids but with a much more overt monetary component. Part of me, thoug…

I don't think you're way off the mark, or being a "grumps" on the subject. Young minds can be heavily influenced which is why many societies regulate experiences that may cause harm.

I'm sure there are children who aren't impacted by EA lootboxes, as I'm sure there are children who are. It's the ones that are I'm concerned about, and the families that will end up dealing with the fallout.

I don't see why it's not possible to gate it behind a proof of age... however it's obvious that there is no incentive for EA to do so.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#13

Post by ComputerGuru »

willis936 wrote: post #5

State endorsed gambling laundering.

I’d have upvoted if you just omitted the last word. I’m not sure where the money laundering obviously comes in (I’m sure it’s possible, I just don’t see how it’s particularly applicable here).

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#14

Post by amock »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #13
willis936 wrote: post #5

State endorsed gambling laundering.

I’d have upvoted if you just omitted the last word. I’m not sure where the money laundering obviously comes in (I’m sure it’s possible, I just don’t see how it’s particularly applicable here).

I read it as laundering gambling, not money. Gambling is illegal for children in most places and this is a way to make it legal.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#15

Post by JoshTriplett »

jmyeet wrote: post #3

This makes me sad. I think loot boxes with RNG rewards are a disgusting practice. It's gambling that minors are allowed to do. One of the things I respect Epic Games for is they didn't follow this profitable path for Fortnite. In Fortnite, you want the skin, you buy the skin. You don't buy a ton of boxes and hope to get lucky. Gambling with an immediate result is bad. It's particularly bad for children. But it's also…

> I think loot boxes with RNG rewards are a disgusting practice.

I completely agree. I think there exist many disgusting practices; that doesn't mean those practices should be prohibited.

As an alternate approach, suppose that this were addressed through ESRB or similar: "gambling elements" could be called out as a theme (alongside "smoking" or "gore"), and have a minimum associated rating (e.g. not "E for Everyone").

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#16

Post by Conlectus »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #13
willis936 wrote: post #5

State endorsed gambling laundering.

I’d have upvoted if you just omitted the last word. I’m not sure where the money laundering obviously comes in (I’m sure it’s possible, I just don’t see how it’s particularly applicable here).

I believe they meant that it was the gambling that was being laundered (disguised) not the money.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#17

Post by ComputerGuru »

(For anyone going just by the title: this is the purchase of loot boxes.)

I’m personally against this for moral reasons having to do a lot with corporate greed and and then some to do with gambling in general, but I do want to point out this isn’t remotely new and isn’t something that the digital gaming/entertainment industry came up. When we were kids, we all used to gamble by buying Pokémon booster packs for $4 or $5 hoping they would contain a Charzard or a holographic Magikarp only to discover just another Koffing. That was specifically marketed towards and aimed at kids - probably even younger than those playing FIFA.

Although - I realize now that I may be speaking out of ignorance as I have no clue if the Netherlands allowed the sale of Pokémon cards to minors in the first place?

(I learned a few years ago that the smarter guys used to go in with a scale and weigh the packs to see which one was heavier due to the presence of a holographic card until Hasbro/TPCI wisened up and began adding blanks to make up for the weight difference.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#18

Post by akersten »

Thank goodness. I was genuinely worried they'd make Pokemon card booster packs illegal next.

Let kids live a little and learn the perils of gambling play money early. They can safely learn the disappointment of throwing 20 bucks into a box with no reward during a time when it's relatively consequence free, instead of throwing 20 grand into stock options and being shocked when it goes to 0.

Loot boxes are not really gambling anyway, because there's not even monetary payout. It's the most tame form of "money pit" there is, and I'm glad we're not continuing this trip down "make things I don't like illegal" lane.

Re: Lootboxes in FIFA now allowed by highest Dutch court

#20

Post by vmception »

> the packages are part of a game of skill, not a separate game of chance in itself.

hahahhahahahaha lolwut! that's hilarious, is that what EA actually argued too or did the judges reach that conclusion on their own from a reading of the statute!

Either way that is hilarious and obviously not the intention of the parliament, but I'll leave it up to them to figure that out if they actually care as much as the executive branch did.

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