Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

fireshouter.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 93 posts

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#11

Post by seanmcdirmid »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #3

The one example of someone who maybe should renounce their American citizenship, Boris Johnson, and who in fact did renounce it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/08/boris-johns... was not a digital nomad. So hey if you have a citizenship somewhere else that is among one of the cool, slightly respecting rights of citizens countries in the world, and you never want to go to the U.S because reasons (includin…

There are plenty of accidental Americans who don’t even realize they are citizens. Also, if you have concurrent Chinese citizenship, you are supposed to renounce one or the other when you turn 18. Pricey, since renouncing citizenship doesn’t come cheap, but at least you’ll avoid the wealth tax if you don’t have any yet. This will be an issue in 10 or so years considering the anchor baby trend in the last decade or so.

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#12

Post by 0xy »

gregjor wrote: post #6

US citizens who live abroad for at least 330 days a year, or establish permanent residence abroad, may qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE). that FEIE excludes the first $112,000 of income from federal income tax, double that for a married couple. Social Security/Medicare (aka self-employment tax) are not excluded. Most states will want state income tax, so establish residence in a state with no inc…

>Most states will want state income tax, so establish residence in a state with no income tax before going nomading.

Is this true? I thought that was only the case if they could prove you are an active resident. Of course, if you maintain a mailing address or residence in California/NY then you better believe they'll make sure you pay. If you cut ties completely, they don't have grounds to come after you.

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#13

Post by plugger »

idontwantthis wrote: post #9
gregjor wrote: post #6

US citizens who live abroad for at least 330 days a year, or establish permanent residence abroad, may qualify for the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE). that FEIE excludes the first $112,000 of income from federal income tax, double that for a married couple. Social Security/Medicare (aka self-employment tax) are not excluded. Most states will want state income tax, so establish residence in a state with no inc…

Yeah this article is really pointless because it doesn't mention this. I'm an American citizen living abroad (still digital, no longer nomadic). I only pay SS and Medicare tax to the US. Do not give up your US Citizenship for tax avoidance unless you are earning > $200k per year or making a lot of unearned income outside of the US. Or you are in some weird situation where you permanently want to be in the US more tha…

from my understanding the US is the only G20 country that taxes citizens living and working abroad. given that I'm not sure your statement makes sense about when you should give up your US citizenship, as you'll still be out of pocket if you earn less than $200k pa.

On the flip side currently if you renounce your US citizenship it immediately triggers a 5 year back tax audit by the IRS and you have to clear your bill before they'll let you renounce.

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#14

Post by lmm »

__d wrote: post #7

What other passports do you have available? The US tax obligations are onerous, but being a US citizen means good no-visa access to lots of places, and somewhere to return to if you want to. Establishing a "reason to leave" when visiting the US might mean you need to buy a house elsewhere if you do renounce.

Many other Western countries offer equally powerful passports and an equal or better place to return to. In contrast the US is one of only two countries that taxes foreign citizens' income earned abroad, and the FACTA requirements are completely unique.

To use the article's own example, if you had an Irish passport I wouldn't see a lot of reason to keep hold of a US one (unless, of course, you did want to live or work in the US) - sure, in the event that you suddenly want to go to Equatorial Guinea some time, it'll cost you $200 and a bit of bureaucracy. But you'd make that back in the first year or two of not being subject to US taxation.

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#15

Post by tylersmith »

__d wrote: post #7

What other passports do you have available? The US tax obligations are onerous, but being a US citizen means good no-visa access to lots of places, and somewhere to return to if you want to. Establishing a "reason to leave" when visiting the US might mean you need to buy a house elsewhere if you do renounce.

For visa-free travel you definitely can't beat the US. That's a compromise one has to weigh here. Most places that have good value in the areas outlined in the article, like the Caribbean and some African islands, have less than great visa-free travel access. This can be potentially be relieved somewhat with additional residency permits but it takes some serious consideration of your travel needs/wants.

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#16

Post by robertlagrant »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #3

The one example of someone who maybe should renounce their American citizenship, Boris Johnson, and who in fact did renounce it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/08/boris-johns... was not a digital nomad. So hey if you have a citizenship somewhere else that is among one of the cool, slightly respecting rights of citizens countries in the world, and you never want to go to the U.S because reasons (includin…

> one of the cool, slightly respecting rights of citizens countries in the world

Presumably they are easy to spot due to the mass emigration.

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#17

Post by mike_d »

The easy answer: It doesn't matter.

Regardless of what you decide there is a 30,000 person waiting list for applications to be processed. They conveniently stopped during the pandemic and even now are processing maybe a dozen a month (all the names are published in the federal register so you can track it yourself).

Most embassies and consulates aren't even taking appointments to process the form: https://uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/citizenship/lo...

Re: I'm a digital nomad. Should I renounce my US citizenship?

#18

Post by CryptoPunk »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #5
SoftwarePatent wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article also talks about Eduardo Saverin, born Brazilian, become American, then renounced in favor of Singapore.

I'm not sure I am convinced that Saverin should have renounced, I think that decision may end up a modern example of Solon's advice to Croesus, but maybe that is just my western liberal prejudice against Singapore coming through.

He saved a massive amount on capital gains tax, and any possible wealth tax that might be created in the US in the future.
Post reply on HN