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Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

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Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#11

Post by woodruffw »

gruez wrote: post #10
woodruffw wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "mainstream Progressive (sic) justification" for discriminating against Asians, because there is no progressive political platform built on discriminating against Asians. Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion ; they are interested in more inclusion .

>Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion; they are interested in more inclusion. Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). The policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excl…

> Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). Your policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excluding everyone else.

I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#15

Post by gruez »

woodruffw wrote: post #11
gruez wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion; they are interested in more inclusion. Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). The policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excl…

> Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). Your policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excluding everyone else. I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

Sorry for being unclear, the "cop-out" was a criticism with that position (ie. that we can do stuff because they're "inclusive" but ignore the consequences), not with you specifically.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#16

Post by bpodgursky »

woodruffw wrote: post #9
kristianov wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That they are Honorary Whites.

Nobody believes this, unless that's a particularly tortured way of describing the model minority[1] phenomenon. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_minority

"White adjacent" is a real term used non-ironically by (at least some) progressives to describe Asians and some Middle Eastern groups.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#17

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

woodruffw wrote: post #4
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

There is no "mainstream Progressive (sic) justification" for discriminating against Asians, because there is no progressive political platform built on discriminating against Asians. Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion ; they are interested in more inclusion .

I know Asian Americans who have inquired about AA and are turned away because they aren't the "right kind" of minority.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#18

Post by woodruffw »

chernevik wrote: post #13

Set standards, let people meet them, and don't worry about what they look like.

There is nothing a priori wrong with offering different educational treatment based on academic standards.

The problem arises when you try to produce an "empirical" measurement of academic excellence on real human beings (and particularly children): children spend their entire days under the control and potential neglect of others. One day's failure on an empty stomach[1] is another day's success.

[1]: In case it isn't abundantly clear, this is a stand-in for a complex of issues.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#19

Post by dahfizz »

woodruffw wrote: post #11
gruez wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion; they are interested in more inclusion. Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). The policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excl…

> Seems like a cop-out to me, especially when dealing with scarce resources (ie. admission slots). Your policy of "more inclusion" by giving preferential treatment to one group, ends up excluding everyone else. I never agreed to artificial scarcity in the form of admission slots, and so I'm not interested in defending any particular consequence of that system.

Admission slots are not artificially scarce. You don't have to be a genius to imagine why you can't admit 100 million students into a particular school.

You're still avoiding the question. Is your position "I support inclusion, only when resources are not scarce?"

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#20

Post by 300bps »

woodruffw wrote: post #4
TeeMassive wrote: post #2

What is the mainstream Progressive justification for discriminating against Asians?

There is no "mainstream Progressive (sic) justification" for discriminating against Asians, because there is no progressive political platform built on discriminating against Asians. Many progressives believe in affirmative action, which doesn't say anything about the particulars of the groups that aren't being explicitly included. Nobody at all is interested in exclusion ; they are interested in more inclusion .

Nobody at all is interested in exclusion; they are interested in more inclusion.

If you have limited open positions and you use race to determine who gets them then you are excluding 1 person for every 1 person you are including.

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