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Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

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Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#11

Post by throwaway_dcnt »

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN.

I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this type of racism. One thing I recommend to my hiring managers is to not allow people from frictioned backgrounds to manage and interview people from the other side. Example problematic pairs for candidates/interviewers (not including the cast situation) include: Indians and Pakistanis, Serbians and Bosnians, Greeks and Turks, Chinese and Japanese.

One way I solve this is by introducing an independent observer/participant when situations like this emerge. This is costly but it has really worked to not only address this problem but also created an amazing diversity in my teams because it takes care of some of the implicit bias we all have to some degree.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#12

Post by cscurmudgeon »

belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

A lot of it is FUD.

California withdrew it's Cisco case but you wont' see any coverage of that here.

https://thewire.in/caste/california-drops-caste-discriminati...

I am from India and have been in the US for more than a decade.

I come from a low caste. The only folks who have asked about my caste and asked if I am from a higher caste are white Americans due to my vegetarianism (voluntary for ethical reasons).

> Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from?

No, not at all.

But I did get upset when my PhD advisor (a white American) wanted to know if I was from the priestly class.

There is definitely casteism in India, but I have not seen it in Silicon Valley.

Casteism is there in India and is unfortunately widespread but steadily disappearing. India's PM and President are from lower castes but you won't see coverage of that in Western news.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#13

Post by rajeshp1986 »

belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

I don't find any truth in it at all not especially in Silicon Valley. These articles are a coerced effort to bring up the caste divide from India into US and divide the Indian diaspora.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#14

Post by zozbot234 »

It's so disappointing to see in the article that caste discrimination is still being blamed by some on the religion of Hinduism. There's no dharmic status whatsoever for "caste" in the commonplace sense. The Vedas occasionally talk about something that gets misinterpreted as caste, but it's very clear from the texts that they're talking about individual callings and aptitudes, and not any sort of immutable status. The latter were merely a historically contingent development within Indian society, very similar to those that were leading towards feudalism and serfdom in the West.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#15

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #10
Bhilai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of stuff mentioned in the article is true. I would even go ahead (at peril being downvoted by Indian patriots) that India is a deeply racist country. My parents, educated upper middle class working folks use to 'educate' me to not get married outside our caste and such. Caste system is deeply rooted in India and you can pretty much read about it from lots of sources online. India has a lot of right provisions (…

It would never even occur to me to ask someone what caste they were from, not just in Silicon Valley where I happen to live, but anywhere in the U.S. Seriously, who does that?

[deleted]

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#16

Post by simmanian »

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #13
belval wrote: post #7

To Indian commenters on HN, how much of that is true? Do you feel threatened when a coworker asks about where you are from? It's something I do ask from time to time (not during interviews obviously, but during lunch for example) out of pure curiosity. Should I stop? I guess that I should explicitly add that I am not from India. Cross-cultural communications can be a bit difficult at times and I'd rather not make blu…

I don't find any truth in it at all not especially in Silicon Valley. These articles are a coerced effort to bring up the caste divide from India into US and divide the Indian diaspora.

The article mentions there were hundreds of people who joined a Zoom call to give testimonies. In your view, is the author exaggerating?

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#18

Post by avalys »

throwaway_dcnt wrote: post #11

The reason for my current user name here at hn was this exact form of racism. It is the first post I made when I created this throwaway. I was assured that my experience was unique and not widespread. I am both sad and happy to see this, sad because it exists, happy because it is getting some attention here at HN. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that everyone of us needs to be vigilant about this t…

The solution you propose is arguably just as bad and I suspect it might be illegal in the US. If I am a qualified manager or tech lead, and there is an opportunity to lead a new project, I would be furious to learn that I was passed over for the opportunity because someone believed I was ethnically incompatible with one of the people on the team.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#19

Post by samizdette »

lisper wrote: post #10
Bhilai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of stuff mentioned in the article is true. I would even go ahead (at peril being downvoted by Indian patriots) that India is a deeply racist country. My parents, educated upper middle class working folks use to 'educate' me to not get married outside our caste and such. Caste system is deeply rooted in India and you can pretty much read about it from lots of sources online. India has a lot of right provisions (…

It would never even occur to me to ask someone what caste they were from, not just in Silicon Valley where I happen to live, but anywhere in the U.S. Seriously, who does that?

I grew up around a lot of Indian people, and I have definitely had the curiosity to know how to ask, but at the same time known that it would be taboo. I can only guess from their wealth or their last names.

Re: Trapped in Silicon Valley’s hidden caste system

#20

Post by AdmiralAsshat »

lisper wrote: post #10
Bhilai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of stuff mentioned in the article is true. I would even go ahead (at peril being downvoted by Indian patriots) that India is a deeply racist country. My parents, educated upper middle class working folks use to 'educate' me to not get married outside our caste and such. Caste system is deeply rooted in India and you can pretty much read about it from lots of sources online. India has a lot of right provisions (…

It would never even occur to me to ask someone what caste they were from, not just in Silicon Valley where I happen to live, but anywhere in the U.S. Seriously, who does that?

It actually does occur to me, mostly because I'm curious if all of my coworkers are of Brahmin caste. It doesn't matter to me personally, but obviously it would be of interest if all of the people in the Managerial or Lead roles are from a certain caste, while all of the lower-level Devs are in another.
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