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The Mundane Existence

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Re: The Mundane Existence

#11

Post by TeMPOraL »

smoyer wrote: post #9
jwingy wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a robot/automation revolution would allow us one day to not have to work, but I think that hope faces more political and socioeconomic obstacles than practical ones. Or in other words, someone will try to profit from such a revolution, and probably to the detriment of the rest of society. In some ways, this is already happening.

Who would want a life without some work? I think it's more that we don't get to work on the things that are meaningful to us. Work can be one of life's adventures too! BTW: I've met Baristas that are exactly where they want to be ... you can tell from their great smiles, and their propensity to call you by name and remember your regular order after only a couple visits.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking about - 'working on the things meaningful to us' as opposed to 'working on whatever someone will feed us for doing'.

AD your BTW: I also know some Baristas who are like the ones you mentioned :).

Re: The Mundane Existence

#12

Post by craftsman »

I'm not ready to say a lot about how I solved this problem other than:

I quit.

My job was killing me. If you looked at it from the outside, you would have said I should be perfectly happy: great pay, bonuses, respect at work. But seriously: I was unhappy with the endless meetings, bureaucracy, and a culture that didn't value creativity and passion for building really good software.

I'm still working all this out. I'm independent and learning a lot of great stuff that I've wanted to learn for years. I'm building some products that I hope will take off. But even if those fail in the sense that I don't make enough to live on, I know I will succeed in a bigger sense: I will find a place to work that has great people and values building really good software that makes people's lives better.

Why am I so confident about that? For the first time in years, I feel alive and full of curiosity and interest in the world.

Re: The Mundane Existence

#13

Post by jwingy »

dualogy wrote: post #8
TeMPOraL wrote: post #3

Seems so familiar. I just started to face this problem and I already hate the idea of spending the rest of my life like this. There must be some way out of here... As a little side-point: on HN we often discuss the values of startup life, or various different alternatives to 'day job'. I can understand why many hate the idea of spending most of one's life as a nine-to-five worker doing things one doesn't exactly care…

The key might be variety. I'd hate "spending the rest of my life programming in front of a screen" as much as "spending the rest of my life making coffee" or "spending the rest of my life on a potato field". But trying your hands at various jobs for a few months or years? Sounds much more refreshing, doesn't it!

As an extension to this, simply experiencing as many facets of life as you can is an incredibly enriching experience :)

Re: The Mundane Existence

#14

Post by the_grind »

I feel this myself and see it in others at work (large fortune 500 company)

The 3 paths that I've identified for myself are as follows:

1. Suck it up, stick with the job/career you've got. It pays well, there is "relative" job security and an upwards path. Enjoy your free time with your family, hobbies, etc. 2. Same as #1, except some part of your free time to bootstrap something that will give you financial freedom. 3. Throw caution to the wind and join a startup.

Per #1, it appears that some are able to partition their lives- e.g., they drag themselves through work to enable them and their families to live a certain lifestyle- I'm not sure this is sustainable longer term, but can be done if one adopts a certain mental attitude towards work. #3 isn't a good fit for me because I'm not ready to force my family to change their lifestyle to accommodate my wishes. So that leaves #2 for me.

Ideally, if I could sustain myself and my family at our current lifestyle or better through a side boot-strapped project, that'd be great. However, I wonder if I would be happier trading in my 1 boss for tens?, hundreds?, of customers of whatever it is that I would be selling or making, assuming that I could even get to that point. Even if my bootstrapped project is successful for a year or two, it is unlikely to succeed for a much longer term (10-20 years), whereas I could see myself easily employed in my current role over that longer time-frame.

Re: The Mundane Existence

#15

Post by wazoox »

This is horrible. Seriously, this will eat you alive, you must impose yourself to your environment, not the other way around or you'll be crushed.

You think this meeting is useless? Tell others, and don't attend it.

You have more work than you can reasonably do? simply say no. You won't get any advantage from working too much, anyway, you'll just be squeezed some more.

When others leave, leave too. You're not supposed to spend 12 hours a day at work. Will someone die if you don't finish this document/program/web page? Heck no.

Your boss is unhappy with your new attitude? Explain the situation. Tell that you won't be this nice guy that get exploited to death any more. Either you're respected or you're better be elsewhere.

Re: The Mundane Existence

#16

Post by smoyer »

wazoox wrote: post #15

This is horrible. Seriously, this will eat you alive, you must impose yourself to your environment, not the other way around or you'll be crushed. You think this meeting is useless? Tell others, and don't attend it. You have more work than you can reasonably do? simply say no. You won't get any advantage from working too much, anyway, you'll just be squeezed some more. When others leave, leave too. You're not suppose…

exploited nice guy ...

That's another interesting side conversation. If you start out with the attitude that it's just a job and you leave when your time has been put in, it's far better than starting out as the nice guy (read that as dedicated) and then changing. You'll be massacred for changing your attitude.

Re: The Mundane Existence

#17

Post by blinkingled »

smoyer wrote: post #7

Only around 30 and feeling this mundane? Although I loved the technology I was working on, my last job became five work-days filled with meetings too. I can tell you that it turned what could have been my hobby (the technology) into a similarly mundane existence. A day full of meetings poses three problems: 1) Poorly run meetings consume too much time without accomplishing anything. 2) Having a full day of meetings a…

> Poorly run meetings consume too much time without accomplishing anything.

Agreed that more often than not this is the case - however I am seeing a clear awareness now a days at my workplace - people are at least a bit conflicted about wasting time. I personally always try to politely steer the meeting to get something meaningful agreed to or done - even if I am not the organizer. My experience is that depending on how cleverly I am able to converse it either goes well or people don't respond and I have to retry.

Things like saying "Hmm. So looks like at this point without having person X in the room and without having data Y we can't really sort this out in this meeting." - it works well if you insert them infrequently with right tone and timing.

Re: The Mundane Existence

#18

Post by wladimir »

dualogy wrote: post #8
TeMPOraL wrote: post #3

Seems so familiar. I just started to face this problem and I already hate the idea of spending the rest of my life like this. There must be some way out of here... As a little side-point: on HN we often discuss the values of startup life, or various different alternatives to 'day job'. I can understand why many hate the idea of spending most of one's life as a nine-to-five worker doing things one doesn't exactly care…

The key might be variety. I'd hate "spending the rest of my life programming in front of a screen" as much as "spending the rest of my life making coffee" or "spending the rest of my life on a potato field". But trying your hands at various jobs for a few months or years? Sounds much more refreshing, doesn't it!

That would be great.

However, I'm afraid in this age we're condemned to our specific specialization for life. For every job, to get a job at all, years of experience ('XX years of YY specific recent buzzword experience') is generally required. Even for things a flexible, intelligent person could easily learn on the job given some time and hard work.

You could probably switch career once with a lot of hassle, but 'trying your hands at various jobs for a few months or years' sounds very optimistic...

Re: The Mundane Existence

#19

Post by skittles »

pemulis wrote: post #10
TeMPOraL wrote: post #3

Seems so familiar. I just started to face this problem and I already hate the idea of spending the rest of my life like this. There must be some way out of here... As a little side-point: on HN we often discuss the values of startup life, or various different alternatives to 'day job'. I can understand why many hate the idea of spending most of one's life as a nine-to-five worker doing things one doesn't exactly care…

If every shop clerk, Starbucks barista, bus driver, electrician or other professional realized that there must be a better way of working, what would happen? The first three you listed are well on their way to being automated within a few decades. The last one seems out of place, since electricians are relatively well-paid and often self-employed. I think that we're seeing a gradual shift away from a service economy,…

I call it the "Star Trek" economy, but I think something more like "The Matrix" is coming. Most people will have cookie-cutter lives where basic needs are supplied for them. Others will rebel against that life and do something they think has meaning (the red pill poppers). I'm willing to listen to alternatives, because my prediction depresses me. I just can't see us shifting back to a less automated world where skilled labor and basic labor is more valued than they are now.

Re: The Mundane Existence

#20

Post by jodrellblank »

I walk around all day with a frown on my face, worrying about one thing or another for no good reason.

There is a good reason - you practised worrying so you got good at it, so it became a tool you use frequently because you can, even when it doesn't help.

The answer is to not do that. It's an introspective answer, it's difficult to do, but the secret to it is that it's not stupid advice it's actually pretty good advice.

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