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Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

economist.com

11–20 of 267 posts

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#11
post #3

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

I live under a rock, can you clarify why the Economist wants Russia to want war, and who those friends are?

I doubt the Economist much cares. As for the parties unknown who direct the Economist’s editorial staff? I could only speculate. Since such speculations would necessarily include offering some pretty unsavory possibilities, I’ll not share them here.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#12
post #10

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

I don't think you're too cynical, but we can have our own takes. From what I was able to piece together, Russia isn't the one starting this conflict, in action. It's NATO aligned countries trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Russia made it very clear, that ain't happening and they'll go to war over it. So who's still agitating for war? The zero-evidence claims that Russia was about to invade sure look like pure propa…

> The zero-evidence claims that Russia was about to invade sure look like pure propaganda from the same people who are thirsty for it.

The insane media drum beats are exactly like before Afghanistan and Iraq. It is so depressing how absolutely nothing has changed.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#13
See also Anne Applebaum:

> Putin is preparing to invade Ukraine again—or pretending he will invade Ukraine again—for the same reason. He wants to destabilize Ukraine, frighten Ukraine. He wants Ukrainian democracy to fail. He wants the Ukrainian economy to collapse. He wants foreign investors to flee. He wants his neighbors—in Belarus, Kazakhstan, even Poland and Hungary—to doubt whether democracy will ever be viable, in the longer term, in their countries too. Farther abroad, he wants to put so much strain on Western and democratic institutions, especially the European Union and NATO, that they break up. He wants to keep dictators in power wherever he can, in Syria, Venezuela, and Iran. He wants to undermine America, to shrink American influence, to remove the power of the democracy rhetoric that so many people in his part of the world still associate with America. He wants America itself to fail.

> These are big goals, and they might not be achievable. But Putin’s beloved Soviet Union also had big, unachievable goals. Lenin, Stalin, and their successors wanted to create an international revolution, to subjugate the entire world to the Soviet dictatorship of the proletariat. Ultimately, they failed—but they did a lot of damage while trying. Putin will also fail, but he too can do a lot of damage while trying. And not only in Ukraine.

* https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/02/putin-ukra...

* https://archive.fo/bmQmO

It would also explain the Russian operations with regards to Brexit and the 2016 US election: the more chaos the West has, the better it is for Russia.

See also funding of more extreme political parties in the EU, with a focus on the far-right in recent years:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia–European_Union_relation...

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#14
post #10

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

I don't think you're too cynical, but we can have our own takes. From what I was able to piece together, Russia isn't the one starting this conflict, in action. It's NATO aligned countries trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Russia made it very clear, that ain't happening and they'll go to war over it. So who's still agitating for war? The zero-evidence claims that Russia was about to invade sure look like pure propa…

I believe people in Ukraine themselves want to align with the West, not Moscow. Or who would like to be governed by kleptocrats? It may or may not come with NATO. NATO is unlikely to accept new members that are already in practice in a war with Russia.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#15

So to begin with, fact, Putin is a better chess player than Biden. You might think, oh it's just a board game, computers are better at it. You could say that. Apparently the strategy right now is get right next to the border of Ukraine and do military exercises, then watch as NATO loses its shit with every passing second.

So, Russia takes on a war posture. NATO naturally responds rather predictably, then Russia just pulls its troops back?

What, exactly, is the strategic advantage there?

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#16

So to begin with, fact, Putin is a better chess player than Biden. You might think, oh it's just a board game, computers are better at it. You could say that. Apparently the strategy right now is get right next to the border of Ukraine and do military exercises, then watch as NATO loses its shit with every passing second.

Part of me wonders if it’s all a ploy to drive up oil prices.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#17

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

This seems to be a popular edgy opinion but I think it's useful to occasionally remember who has thousands of soldiers massed on the border.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#18

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

Russia annexed Crimea and has been engaged in a proxy war in Donbas for 8 years. The Kremlin has now amassed 100K - 200K troops at Ukraine's border.

Yet, the Russian propaganda machine continues to claim it's the West that wants war.

Can you explain how the West is the aggressor here?

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#19
post #10

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

I don't think you're too cynical, but we can have our own takes. From what I was able to piece together, Russia isn't the one starting this conflict, in action. It's NATO aligned countries trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Russia made it very clear, that ain't happening and they'll go to war over it. So who's still agitating for war? The zero-evidence claims that Russia was about to invade sure look like pure propa…

I mean, that's still Russia being the aggressor. Ukraine, as a sovereign nation, can align with who they wish, and be lobbied by anyone and everyone to do so, and Russia doesn't get a say in that.

Re: Why Vladimir Putin and his entourage want war

#20
post #10

I read this as why the economist and friends want russia to want war. but maybe im just cynical and jaded?

I don't think you're too cynical, but we can have our own takes. From what I was able to piece together, Russia isn't the one starting this conflict, in action. It's NATO aligned countries trying to get Ukraine to join NATO. Russia made it very clear, that ain't happening and they'll go to war over it. So who's still agitating for war? The zero-evidence claims that Russia was about to invade sure look like pure propa…

I would suggest those putting 50% of their active combat forces on the border of another country and taking an invasion stance are the ones who want war. Perhaps if Putin hadn't profited so much and had not allowed the oligarchs to literally loot the Russian economy over the past decade plus they, Russia, would not be in the situation they are in.
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