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A new wave of Linux applications

tuxphones.com

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Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#11
post #5

That's cool and all, but who is actually out here using a linux phone?

I have a Pinephone. I tried, in earnest, to use it as a daily driver; but the software stack was hideously unperformant and the camera was just too awful. I have young kids; I need to take pictures quickly on occasion. I couldn't rely on the phone to do that, not by a long shot, and so it remains a pointless curiousity that I purchased.

To be fair, the Pinephone store very clearly states that this is a beta device intended for experience linux developers/early adopters only. It’s not meant to be a daily driver yet.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#12
History is back around to repeating itself. I'm an avid Linux user (and even a developer who uses GTK pretty regularly), but the recent developments surrounding GNOME, Flatpak and their related libraries has not made me optimistic for the future of Linux applications.

GTK4 is really bad. It launched with horrible text rendering issues (still unfixed, 10+ months later), broke compatibility with a number of basic features, and then had those features replaced by the GNOME middleware known as libadwaita. libadwaita is in a "functional" release state, but still lacks support for custom stylesheets, basic desktop integration on non-GNOME desktops and has it's own litany of bugs that accompany it. Fair enough for brand-new software, but the state of GTK4 is unacceptable and borderline impossible to use on a daily basis. If you're a developer, things only get worse. Gone are the days of fast app development with gtk::Builder workflows, and now Glade has been thrown by the wayside with no replacement. Talk about a second-class developer experience. And then there's the strange omissions that the GNOME team insists on; some issues are marked as WONTFIX since they can be mitigated with Flatpak. Some features (like appindicators) have been ignored completely because they don't align with the GNOME desktop's vision. The general demeanor of the team has been my-way-or-the-highway, so making suggestions mostly gets you labelled as a troll in their gitlab and sees you forcibly removed if you don't give up and assimilate into their opinion.

Flatpak itself is becoming the new Wayland. With more than 600 open issues on Github and outstanding issues like random data deletion, portal malfunctioning, compositor glitches, security holes and more, it's less like the "one package manager to rule them all" and more like "snap but it doesn't work". It's slow, doubles the dependencies that you store on your system (!!!) and doesn't integrate with your desktop unless you go out of your way to install questionable third party hacks that forward your native stylesheet and XDG options. I'd honestly rather use AppImage if given the option.

The future of app development on Linux is bleaker than ever. Fragmentation is at an all-time-high, and the technology that was supposed to fix it only fanned the flames into an unsalvageable dumpster fire. If you are a Linux developer planning on shipping an app, please stay on GTK2/3 for the sake of your users. I outright refuse to run GTK4, libadwaita or Flatpak on any of my systems. Nothing I've seen recently changes my opinion on that.

Dead dove, do not eat.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#13
post #6
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Pinephone. I tried, in earnest, to use it as a daily driver; but the software stack was hideously unperformant and the camera was just too awful. I have young kids; I need to take pictures quickly on occasion. I couldn't rely on the phone to do that, not by a long shot, and so it remains a pointless curiousity that I purchased.

I can't rely on any phone's camera for speed. Sucks to hear this one is even worse than normal.

The camera is so bad that it's even a shame that they bothered adding it. The additional cost for the hardware clearly wasn't worth it.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#15
post #11
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Pinephone. I tried, in earnest, to use it as a daily driver; but the software stack was hideously unperformant and the camera was just too awful. I have young kids; I need to take pictures quickly on occasion. I couldn't rely on the phone to do that, not by a long shot, and so it remains a pointless curiousity that I purchased.

To be fair, the Pinephone store very clearly states that this is a beta device intended for experience linux developers/early adopters only. It’s not meant to be a daily driver yet.

It's not Beta. At the time I purchased it, it wasn't even Alpha. Beta, as a game developer, implies to me that there's a few outstanding show-stoppers but on the whole the product is safe to show to eager end-consumers who are willing to tolerate some rough edges. The PinePhone isn't even that, yet; I couldn't conscientiously hand it to a non-techy and ask them for feedback because I'm not even sure it would reliably respond to their touch input, let alone do anything else.

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#16

I have to say I just don't like Gnome's design. The shift away from text and towards more and more abstract icons, the "don't theme my app movement", removing features I consider pretty essential like typeahead.... Maybe mobile is where their weird (to me) design choices will finally shine though. Also looking forward to what KDE can accomplish in this space.

The “don’t theme my app” thing just tells me that GNOME/GTK+/Adwaita aren’t built in a way that gracefully handles theming, or that devs building apps with them are doing things like hard coding colors when they should be using dynamic system colors such as those provided by UIColor[0] in UIKit.

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uicolor/ui_e...

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#18
This could be less about device convergence and more about UX improvements and design coherence among apps. Some examples of what's been happening:

- Touchpad gestures through various efforts: https://linuxtouchpad.org

- Gnome: libAdwaita: https://blogs.gnome.org/alexm/2021/12/31/libadwaita-1-0/

- Core workflows getting better first-class approaches rather than being another app to install: (e.g. screenshots & screenrecording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewC1Zc-5qPQ&t=2s )

- Visual improvements proposed to larger complex apps like libreoffice: https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristianOhrfan/status/1472015987...

I wouldn't recommend it to everyone but it'd definitely interesting to see as someone who came from being a fairly invested mac user - I track personal workflows between OSes here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148zTJUwfVv9xfDcpSoH3...

Re: A new wave of Linux applications

#19

That's cool and all, but who is actually out here using a linux phone?

I am. I have used a Pinephone with Mobian daily for a while, I am currently using a Librem 5 with PureOS.

I only turned on my Android phone once since December, and that was to factory reset it since I wasn't using it.

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