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On Extroverted Programmers

gregerwikstrand.com

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Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#11

Post by espeed »

arvinjoar wrote: post #10
alinajaf wrote: post #8

At university I spent the vast majority of my time getting drunk, doing drugs and chasing girls. I then took the show on the road and did more or less the same thing in Japan for s few years. There was absolutely nothing introverted about those five years. I made a ton of friends, got into lots of excellent adventures and generally had a good time. Fast forward a few years and I'm a mid to senior level developer. I'm…

I have no idea about how valid or invalid the MBTI tests are, but I think that your type can change over time. You describe yourself as somewhat of a chameleon, the tests seem to be reflecting that.

> You describe yourself as somewhat of a chameleon

Protean is how I like to describe it.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#12

Post by acangiano »

alinajaf wrote: post #8

At university I spent the vast majority of my time getting drunk, doing drugs and chasing girls. I then took the show on the road and did more or less the same thing in Japan for s few years. There was absolutely nothing introverted about those five years. I made a ton of friends, got into lots of excellent adventures and generally had a good time. Fast forward a few years and I'm a mid to senior level developer. I'm…

> not least because I took the test once every month for three months and got different results!

That's interesting, I had the opposite experience. I must have taken the test 5 times over the years, and I got ENTP every time. I didn't expect it to be the case, but I was surprised by its precision.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#14

Post by eftpotrm »

acangiano wrote: post #12
alinajaf wrote: post #8

At university I spent the vast majority of my time getting drunk, doing drugs and chasing girls. I then took the show on the road and did more or less the same thing in Japan for s few years. There was absolutely nothing introverted about those five years. I made a ton of friends, got into lots of excellent adventures and generally had a good time. Fast forward a few years and I'm a mid to senior level developer. I'm…

> not least because I took the test once every month for three months and got different results! That's interesting, I had the opposite experience. I must have taken the test 5 times over the years, and I got ENTP every time. I didn't expect it to be the case, but I was surprised by its precision.

Surely the answer there is that it depends on your exact scores?

Each factor won't be a clear binary but a continuum between the two. Your answers will depend on mood, sure, but will also give a result on that continuum and with a margin for error.

You might've got ENTP consistently. I've had both INTP and ESTJ in fairly quick succession without any intention to mislead. The idea that the test is anywhere near perfect, foolproof and likely to produce absolutely consistent results for all appears unsupported by anecdotal evidence here.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#15

Post by andrewingram »

INFP here. I do my best programming when I'm learning something new, or tackling a problem when I'm certain I'm heading towards the best solution.

As soon as I feel like what I'm being asked to do isn't the right way to do things, I get extremely demotivated and distracted. This means that in my case I have more chance of hitting a deadline if I'm following the "idealistic" path even if it is considerably more complicated than the straightforward path.

Unfortunately, this is hard in the real world, so I'm having to train myself to be more disciplined at work.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#16

Post by acangiano »

eftpotrm wrote: post #14
acangiano wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not least because I took the test once every month for three months and got different results! That's interesting, I had the opposite experience. I must have taken the test 5 times over the years, and I got ENTP every time. I didn't expect it to be the case, but I was surprised by its precision.

Surely the answer there is that it depends on your exact scores? Each factor won't be a clear binary but a continuum between the two. Your answers will depend on mood, sure, but will also give a result on that continuum and with a margin for error. You might've got ENTP consistently. I've had both INTP and ESTJ in fairly quick succession without any intention to mislead. The idea that the test is anywhere near perfec…

> Surely the answer there is that it depends on your exact scores?

Absolutely. I just wanted to provide an anecdotal counterexample, given that my experience was opposite to the one of the original commenter.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#17

Post by maeon3 »

Making friends can be turned into an algorithm for processing inside the programmer mind.

Read this 2 or 3 times and do everything it tells you to do, and you'll have people going out of their way to be your friend.

http://www.amazon.com/Likeability-Factor-L-Factor-Achieve-Dr...

I got the audiobook on this and listened to it twice 6 months ago, I've been following the rules religiously, and my emotional intelligence and personal likability has skyrocketed. I have people who I know who's faces light up (male and female) when they see me and are eager to see me again. They don't know I'm running an elaborate algorithm to do exactly that, and can turn it off as quickly as I turn it on. Learning the basic syntax and procedures are for maintaining loyal close friends is easier than learning Programming.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#18

Post by skrebbel »

alinajaf wrote: post #8

At university I spent the vast majority of my time getting drunk, doing drugs and chasing girls. I then took the show on the road and did more or less the same thing in Japan for s few years. There was absolutely nothing introverted about those five years. I made a ton of friends, got into lots of excellent adventures and generally had a good time. Fast forward a few years and I'm a mid to senior level developer. I'm…

On MBTI: you have misgivings about the test, not the type system itself. I did a bunch of different tests over my lifetime, yielding various results. However, in a group session where all the different factors were explained and 'tested' with examples, I clearly figured out that I'm ENTP.

Don't do a test. Just read up on it and figure it out.

(note that MBTI itself is frowned upon by most psychologists - nevertheless, I find it a useful tool in explaining the basic attitudes and actions of myself and others)

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#19

Post by Kurtz79 »

"In my experience engineering jobs are all about working with people."

I completely agree. In my relatively short (four years) but intense (four jobs, in four different countries) engineering/programming career I still haven't been in a situation where social interaction wasn't a daily requirement in order to do a good job.

At the very least you must be able to interact successfully with your fellow programmers, and your boss. Without being confident in your relationship with them, everything becomes more difficult, asking for help, helping someone, providing feedback, admitting mistakes and getting acknowledgment for a job well done.

In a large or very well organized company it might be the end of your social commitment, but in a good part of them you are likely to deal sporadically with customers, engineers from other companies, production, sales, technical support.

If you get to be known as "that guy", if you get to be known at all, promotions and raises become almost impossible to achieve, and in hard times you'll be the first in line waiting for the axe to fall.

Of course I'm talking in my experience, I have no doubt that there are companies where introverts can thrive. But is it to their (ours) benefit ?

I have been an introvert all my life, and getting a job helped me in being more open (in a "sink or swim" way) even more than making me a better engineer.

Re: On Extroverted Programmers

#20

Post by Goladus »

skrebbel wrote: post #18
alinajaf wrote: post #8

At university I spent the vast majority of my time getting drunk, doing drugs and chasing girls. I then took the show on the road and did more or less the same thing in Japan for s few years. There was absolutely nothing introverted about those five years. I made a ton of friends, got into lots of excellent adventures and generally had a good time. Fast forward a few years and I'm a mid to senior level developer. I'm…

On MBTI: you have misgivings about the test, not the type system itself. I did a bunch of different tests over my lifetime, yielding various results. However, in a group session where all the different factors were explained and 'tested' with examples, I clearly figured out that I'm ENTP. Don't do a test. Just read up on it and figure it out. (note that MBTI itself is frowned upon by most psychologists - nevertheless…

Can you describe the examples used in the group session?

The primary flaw with MBTI types is that they cannot be tested for. The common descriptions are too vague and inclusive to devise real tests. The tests that are given sort you into categories of other people who have answered the tests in a similar way, not necessarily with people who demonstrate scientifically observable traits exclusive to one type or another.

Contrast MBTI types with zoological taxonomy. Classification of animals into categories starts out with basic, concrete observations like "has a spine vs. doesn't have a spine" and over time has grown to include hundreds and hundreds of categories and subcategories-- all based on the increasing volume and quality of empirical observation. MBTI types, in contrast, aren't based on empirical observation. They're based on ideas and subjective interpretation of human behavior.

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