Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 317 posts

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#11

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #8

The whole ecosystem around Apple products seems to be a commitment to producing e-waste in the short-term. It's really bizarre. A 20 year old PC still works. It might be slow, but as long as it's 64-bit, you can run modern software. If it's older and 32-bit you might be struggling but it's at least theoretically possible. By contrast Apple seem hell-bent on creating this environment in which they control the software…

> A 20 year old PC still works

A horse and buggy still work, that doesn’t mean the only purpose of cars is creating waste.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#12

Post by sschueller »

Arnt wrote: post #7
sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

A fine goal, and I approve strongly, but I worry that without a real understanding of what has happened in China, the outcome might be prices like China's (50% cut being typical, https://archive.fo/5dvsz ). And IMO, anyone who says "well, obviously the only reason…" doesn't really understand.

I don't think so and this is where unregulated markets (although I am not a fan at all) would push the prices down. If anyone can provide an app store and that app stores fees are lower people will move.

What Apple and Google need to do is work on assuring that Apps can be uniquely identified (which the can already) and validated so that you don't have a clone of an App in another app store.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#13

Post by dariosalvi78 »

I wonder what's their reasoning here, it is obvious that this is will not satisfy anybody. Are they buying time? Or do they want to show that they are above everybody and don't try to mess with us (except if you're China of course)?

We used to hate Microsoft for much less than this. I wonder how Apple can still have so many fans, even on this forum.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#14

Post by throwaway22032 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
throwaway22032 wrote: post #8

The whole ecosystem around Apple products seems to be a commitment to producing e-waste in the short-term. It's really bizarre. A 20 year old PC still works. It might be slow, but as long as it's 64-bit, you can run modern software. If it's older and 32-bit you might be struggling but it's at least theoretically possible. By contrast Apple seem hell-bent on creating this environment in which they control the software…

> A 20 year old PC still works A horse and buggy still work, that doesn’t mean the only purpose of cars is creating waste.

Well, my 20 year old car still works.

There are 50 year old cars on my road - our cars could probably go on forever (though they won't, within 10 or 20 years my city will probably mandate electric drivetrains).

I think that newer cars are more likely to create waste for many of the same reasons.

Of course we can't extend the timeline out forever, but we can at least take steps to not _artificially_ cause obsolescence, this is distinct from the way in which a car is inherently far more useful than a horse and buggy.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#15

Post by sschueller »

aeonflux wrote: post #10
sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

Supported side-loading is a thing on Android since day one? What innovation came out of this? Thousands of rip-off apps, all sort of malware pushed upon clueless users? I know, that some of those things are still a problem on iOS, but just imagine how worse this can gen, if they would be forced to open up the system for additional app stores.

Like SSL, Apple and Google need to do their part to provide a way for developers to validate an app and prevent clones from being installed instead even if coming from a 3rd party store.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#16

Post by maxclark »

aeonflux wrote: post #10
sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

Supported side-loading is a thing on Android since day one? What innovation came out of this? Thousands of rip-off apps, all sort of malware pushed upon clueless users? I know, that some of those things are still a problem on iOS, but just imagine how worse this can gen, if they would be forced to open up the system for additional app stores.

There’s so many potential pitfalls with side loading and alternate app stores

Apple’s behavior is BS and they need to be forced to allow competition

They’ve done it to themselves

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#17

Post by Macha »

aeonflux wrote: post #10
sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

Supported side-loading is a thing on Android since day one? What innovation came out of this? Thousands of rip-off apps, all sort of malware pushed upon clueless users? I know, that some of those things are still a problem on iOS, but just imagine how worse this can gen, if they would be forced to open up the system for additional app stores.

Third party app stores cannot automatically update apps - each individual update requires going through a modal OS prompt to confirm. This harms the install experience on e.g. F-Droid or Amazon Store on non-Amazon devices.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#18

Post by amcoastal »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #14
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 20 year old PC still works A horse and buggy still work, that doesn’t mean the only purpose of cars is creating waste.

Well, my 20 year old car still works. There are 50 year old cars on my road - our cars could probably go on forever (though they won't, within 10 or 20 years my city will probably mandate electric drivetrains). I think that newer cars are more likely to create waste for many of the same reasons. Of course we can't extend the timeline out forever, but we can at least take steps to not _artificially_ cause obsolescence…

Planned obsolescence is the entire backbone of the American economy. We could get rid of it in one fell swoop, but then basically every company in the country would go bankrupt and then the world. A sad state of affairs. Perhaps incremental improvements and clawing back of Right-to-Repair etc. can give us some semblence of not being facebooters, but also allow our shit-tier companies to adjust.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#19

Post by dpcx »

sschueller wrote: post #4

It's really time to do what needs to be done. I want the EU to force Apple and Google to allow 3rd party app stores with the exact same rights as theirs (auto updated etc.). Just like back in the day when Microsoft was forced to let users allow other browser when it wasn't even being blocked. Just theirs was pre-installed! The security excuse doesn't cut it, sorry. 3rd party app stores can be just as secure if not ev…

Microsoft was forced around Internet Explorer not "just" because theirs was pre-installed. It was more that Internet Explorer had become so baked in to the system that it literally could not be removed without breaking Windows. That was the thing that caused rulings against Microsoft.

Re: This app does not support the App Store’s private and secure payment system

#20

Post by aeonflux »

sschueller wrote: post #15
aeonflux wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supported side-loading is a thing on Android since day one? What innovation came out of this? Thousands of rip-off apps, all sort of malware pushed upon clueless users? I know, that some of those things are still a problem on iOS, but just imagine how worse this can gen, if they would be forced to open up the system for additional app stores.

Like SSL, Apple and Google need to do their part to provide a way for developers to validate an app and prevent clones from being installed instead even if coming from a 3rd party store.

It doesn't really work even with one closed AppStore. How that could work if they would be forced to allow 3rd party AppStores? I don't understand this logic. On one hand you want to force Apple to allow 3rd patry stores (and apps). But still you want them to have final word in the approval process?

And SSL validates just the domain name, which still allows all the phishing attacks to thrive. Compare installing App for the first time to coming to some website for the first time ever. SSL doesn't really provide anything to identify the site, anyone can get any domain.

Post reply on HN