Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

artforum.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 235 posts

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#11

Post by akuji1993 »

swarnie wrote: post #4

To me universal basic income is just that, universal. This feels like the government employing 2000 people and telling them to do nothing in particular. Also it seems the payment is set to the Irish minimum wage of €10.50 p/h. I would love to know what an actual minimum wage worker thinks of this scheme.

> telling them to do nothing in particular

Nobody told them anything close to that. Any research towards basic income tells us that people continue working close to as much as before. So this seems like a really unnecessary combative comment.

Regarding minimum wage workers, one thing can be bad, while the other is also bad. So not really an argument.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#13

Post by swarnie »

MrPatan wrote: post #7
swarnie wrote: post #4

To me universal basic income is just that, universal. This feels like the government employing 2000 people and telling them to do nothing in particular. Also it seems the payment is set to the Irish minimum wage of €10.50 p/h. I would love to know what an actual minimum wage worker thinks of this scheme.

They'll become an artist

Oh yes, i expect the definition of that word to expand massively.

Are we still doing coffee and subway artists?

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#15

Post by chrismorgan »

> two thousand arts and culture workers for a span of three years … earmarked €25 million for the plan … top recommendation … €10.50 per hour

3 years × 2,000 hours per year (estimate of full time employment) × €10.50 per hour × 2,000 people = €126 million, five times as much as is earmarked (even ignoring administrative costs). Perhaps it’s 400 rather than 2,000, perhaps it’s not full-time, perhaps the mention of the top recommendation of €10.50 is a red herring and not what’s being implemented (one must admit that €2/hour doesn’t sound so impressive), perhaps something else?

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#16

Post by emaro »

arcticbull wrote: post #2

Well that's not really universal by any metric (you have to be an artist, there can't be too many applicants or you'll get subjected to lottery) but I'm still enthusiastic. It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. These feel more like government artist in residence grants.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/080b9-minister-catherine...

The gov itself seem to speak about a basic income. :) Media...

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#17

Post by chrisseaton »

s_dev wrote: post #8

This was received very well by the artistic community in Ireland so it's odd to see people remarking it's not much or will do little. Certainly better than tolerating the open secret that many of them weren't' "actively looking for work" when claiming the dole.

> This was received very well by the artistic community

Well yeah obviously it was.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#18

Post by swarnie »

akuji1993 wrote: post #11
swarnie wrote: post #4

To me universal basic income is just that, universal. This feels like the government employing 2000 people and telling them to do nothing in particular. Also it seems the payment is set to the Irish minimum wage of €10.50 p/h. I would love to know what an actual minimum wage worker thinks of this scheme.

> telling them to do nothing in particular Nobody told them anything close to that. Any research towards basic income tells us that people continue working close to as much as before. So this seems like a really unnecessary combative comment. Regarding minimum wage workers, one thing can be bad, while the other is also bad. So not really an argument.

> telling them to do nothing in particular

As in not being given a task or directive for their income.

I'm not saying they're told to literally do nothing.

Re: Ireland to launch basic income program for artists

#19

Post by lelanthran »

arcticbull wrote: post #2

Well that's not really universal by any metric (you have to be an artist, there can't be too many applicants or you'll get subjected to lottery) but I'm still enthusiastic. It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage. These feel more like government artist in residence grants.

> It's always nice seeing countries look to support their artists in building their cultural heritage.

But, at the end of the day it's still worth close to nothing, right?

I enjoy art and music as much as anyone else but the reason those professions are so poorly paid is because the supply outstrips the demand considerably[1]. What value is there in asking taxpayers to pay for an increase the supply when there's already too much supply?

Sure, paying people for doing what they love even when you are going to, in effect, throw away whatever they produce is madness.

[1] I play guitar and sketch/paint. Of the other people (who do these things) that I have regular contact with, no one can make money of the things they produce. My rough guess is that for every 1000 musician/art supply, only 1 is demanded.

Post reply on HN