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A delightful quirk of relativity theory

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11–20 of 232 posts

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#11

I might have missed it, but is there (or do we know of) a different model for which the velocities actually add? Essentially, how do we go from slopes to angles here?

Yes, he introduced it near the bottom - instead of using speeds (which are like slopes), you use "rapidities" which are the angles of the hyperbolic rotations.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#12
post #4

I love the name of the scientist Al Unapietra. The thing is very well explained, but it's very sad to see it as a twitter thread, which is a mostly unreadable format.

Twitter threads don’t bother me. The brain quickly adapts to skipping the irrelevant parts (username, like buttons, etc) and to expecting the cadency of tweets.

I believe it is harder to write (due to the character limit of each text block), but, far from “unreadable”, I can read it fairly easily.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#14
I cannot help but add a reference to a conformal geometric algebra here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_geometric_algebra

Why? Because it describes movement as rotation from the infinitely far away point (a special basis vector there). And "coordinates" there are somewhat self-normalizing, because there is a special basis vector that keeps coordinates' squares.

And, of course, it is investigated as a tool to think about relativistic coordinates, linking my comment to a tweet part that says "wrong tools can obscure things".

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#15
I like this, but it doesn't completely remove the "unintuitivenes" of relativity.

For example, why do we measure in fractions of light speed? What happens when we are already rotated all the way to light speed and then fire another bullet?

I guess there are other ways to reason about this, but it still doesn't feel intuitive to me.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#16

Summary: For small angles, approximation makes it look like gradients (y/x) add simply (a+b). Similarly low velocity in relativity world makes it look like velocities just add as well. With some insight we discover how it really works, including how the approximation makes it look correct for small values.

But who was actually genuine surprised or flabbergasted that there was an extra factor that in macro real life becomes zero but is there in extreme speeds? The un-intuitiveness is typically more to do with understanding what that factor means and where it came from.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#17
post #14

I cannot help but add a reference to a conformal geometric algebra here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conformal_geometric_algebra Why? Because it describes movement as rotation from the infinitely far away point (a special basis vector there). And "coordinates" there are somewhat self-normalizing, because there is a special basis vector that keeps coordinates' squares. And, of course, it is investigated as a tool to…

> Because it describes movement as rotation from the infinitely far away point

Doesn't this also work in normal geometry as the length of a translation goes to zero and the distance to the rotation's origin goes to infinity... because a big circle looks like a straight line up close?

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#18
post #12
post #4

I love the name of the scientist Al Unapietra. The thing is very well explained, but it's very sad to see it as a twitter thread, which is a mostly unreadable format.

Twitter threads don’t bother me. The brain quickly adapts to skipping the irrelevant parts (username, like buttons, etc) and to expecting the cadency of tweets. I believe it is harder to write (due to the character limit of each text block), but, far from “unreadable”, I can read it fairly easily.

Oh, I don't bother by the stupidly repeated usernames and dates. I just want to read the damn thing.

But it is literally unreadable to me. I couldn't finish reading the thread and had to find an alternative way out of twitter.

Fist trial, using my android phone with fennec fox. There is a modal that hides the content asking me to "log in"; if I close the modal I go back to the twitter homepage. Thus unreadable because I don't have a twitter account. Sometimes I have managed to read a few tweets by a "smart" combination of closing the successive modals and reloading the page, but not this time.

Second trial, using my laptop with firefox browser and heavy adblocking. I can read only the first three tweets, the rest do not load due to some third-party javascript.

No big deal. Third trial, now I open a "clean" firefox browser session with just ublock origin, and I manage to read about 30 tweets, until it starts talking about hyperbolic rotations. The thread obviously continues, but the sole link below it "show replies" does not work. When I click on it it says "Whoops! Something went wrong. Please try again!".

Typically I wouldn't bother and stop reading. Fuck twitter. But today I really wanted to read this thread because I teach these things. Thus I learned to use nitter, which gives an interface of twitter that, even if it's equally ugly, it sort of works (in that you can actually manage to read the text).

In retrospect, this is an extremely sad state of affairs. We have an excellent article which is made of a short text, a few simple formulas, and a few simple images. This could be a static html page of a handful of Kb with img tags. But it is a slow and humongous javascript monstrosity that does not even work, and may disappear at any time if twitter "bans" this user for reasons unrelated to this text.

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#19

I like this, but it doesn't completely remove the "unintuitivenes" of relativity. For example, why do we measure in fractions of light speed? What happens when we are already rotated all the way to light speed and then fire another bullet? I guess there are other ways to reason about this, but it still doesn't feel intuitive to me.

Lightspeed has infinite rapidity, so when you add on the rapidity of a bullet you just get lightspeed again

Re: A delightful quirk of relativity theory

#20

I like this, but it doesn't completely remove the "unintuitivenes" of relativity. For example, why do we measure in fractions of light speed? What happens when we are already rotated all the way to light speed and then fire another bullet? I guess there are other ways to reason about this, but it still doesn't feel intuitive to me.

It’s important that the “angle” isn’t directly the fraction of c, but tanh^-1(v/c). This number is also called “rapidity”, and goes to infinity as v -> c. Yes, hyperbolic angles aren’t limited to [0, 2 pi).

You can’t rotate all the way to lightspeed, that would be rotation by an infinite angle. For any finite angle (i.e. speed below c), you can always add the angle of the bullet to get a new (finite) angle.

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