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They Still Haven't Told You

arxiv.org

11–20 of 76 posts

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#11
post #2

Seems to me like an easy explanation is that a whole ton of firms wouldn't want to hold anything overnight because you can't respond to it until the next morning? So they pile in in the morning, and exit in the afternoon.

Yeah this is so obvious I would hope it could be controlled for by the Analyst. There are simply a lot of funds and traders who, by policy, do not hold positions overnight.

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#13

important news is often released b4 market open or after close, or pundits will hype the stock over the close. Manipulation, such as gapping the price higher or lower to make profit from options or increased liquidity of regular trading hours. So you spend $10 million in the pre-market hours to make a stock open 5% higher and then use the extra liquidity to unload a $100 million position at the open while also sellin…

Tangential question: why isn't the stock market open 24/7/365 (minus periodic maintenance of the computer systems)?

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#14

important news is often released b4 market open or after close, or pundits will hype the stock over the close. Manipulation, such as gapping the price higher or lower to make profit from options or increased liquidity of regular trading hours. So you spend $10 million in the pre-market hours to make a stock open 5% higher and then use the extra liquidity to unload a $100 million position at the open while also sellin…

Tangential question: why isn't the stock market open 24/7/365 (minus periodic maintenance of the computer systems)?

[deleted]

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#15
post #2

Seems to me like an easy explanation is that a whole ton of firms wouldn't want to hold anything overnight because you can't respond to it until the next morning? So they pile in in the morning, and exit in the afternoon.

but this article is explaining that unless you are selling short in the morning and covering at night, there are mostly negative returns for intraday trading, i.e. "pil(ing) in in the morning, and exit(ing) in the afternoon".

There are lots of firms and funds and floors that never hold overnight, but this research demonstrates that that is basically a statistically losing strategy. If you follow markets it's almost impossible to not notice that almost all the real action happens after hours, and the day's trading tends to "erase" whatever happened overnight. Bruce's research is hard to contradict, unless the data is wrong or his formulae or off.

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#16
post #12

People tend to point out how much energy cryptos consume, is there an estimate for how much high frequency trading consumes world wide?

People have certainly tried, but I think that these comparisons don't make any sense. What makes the "waste" of crypto stand out is a qualitative concern:

HFT uses energy as a means to an end (i.e. computation), while proof-of-work mining has an incentive structure that directly rewards energy expenditure. In other words, one is energy- (and hardware-)bound, the other isn't.

As a thought experiment: If fusion energy and self-replicating nanobots were to become viable tomorrow, how would that impact HFTs and proof-of-work mining, respectively?

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#17

> Fortunately, the other sentences in footnote 78 contain no words that start with v, so we should be able to take them at face volume. Savage. I saw lots of charts & graphs & flashy wordsmithing, but I didn't actually see any evidence or examples of firms doing unscrupulous trades. I'm not an expert, but I know better than to dish it out better than I can take it. My opinion is that these "exemplary" market returns…

> between 0930h and 1600h there's liquidity to buy/sell your position at any time, for the prevailing price. Markets are open only 7h of the day but 24h worth of events takes place each day.

Yes indeed. The author claims that there is less risk in overnight positions than in intra-day positions. I think there's more. Firstly more time passes overnight and secondly the lack of liquidity means you can't unwind overnight positions if you need to.

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#18
Am I blind or does this paper spend a huge amount of time lamenting the failures to notice the issue, without ever once actually describing the issue. I don't claim to be very knowledgable here, so can someone fill in the gaps for those of us who want to know exactly why Fig 2. is so damning?

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#19

important news is often released b4 market open or after close, or pundits will hype the stock over the close. Manipulation, such as gapping the price higher or lower to make profit from options or increased liquidity of regular trading hours. So you spend $10 million in the pre-market hours to make a stock open 5% higher and then use the extra liquidity to unload a $100 million position at the open while also sellin…

Tangential question: why isn't the stock market open 24/7/365 (minus periodic maintenance of the computer systems)?

probably because there are still 2 days needed for settlement

crypto markets don't have this issue and are open 24/7

Re: They Still Haven't Told You

#20
post #2

Seems to me like an easy explanation is that a whole ton of firms wouldn't want to hold anything overnight because you can't respond to it until the next morning? So they pile in in the morning, and exit in the afternoon.

Yeah this is so obvious I would hope it could be controlled for by the Analyst. There are simply a lot of funds and traders who, by policy, do not hold positions overnight.

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