Macron's vow to 'piss off' the unvaccinated sparks outrage

> I think they’re lobbying (or lying about status) to let their unvaccinated children bring plague into otherwise vaccinated schools.

How much damage has covid (catching the actual disease) caused to children? How well do the current vaccines stop transmission when youre in a room with 30 other people for an hour?

> I believe they’re lobbying to force businesses to employ them despite them risking other people at work.

This is an interesting framing. You could also say they're lobbying various governments to not force companies to fire people for vaccine status, which as I've said is not as useful of a descriptor as everyone makes it out to be.

> I have yet to see anyone stand up and say “I have the right to be unvaccinated as long as I stay away from places where I have an much higher risk of harming others”. In fact all the evidence shows that they are demanding the exact opposite.

You're talking to someone who had a prior infection but has not been vaccinated. I test frequently, I wear masks (not that I've seen convincing evidence that they do much of anything at an individual level, but because its easy to do and it makes people more comfortable), and I stay home if I have the slightest of symptoms.

Something to keep in mind, especially with omicron: if you are vaccinated you can and will pass the virus if you are infected. You just probably won't die or be hospitalized yourself.

This is evidence that it does matter. That the unvaccinated as a whole are some outsized threat to everyone is misleading at best. The subset of the unvaccinated that are seronaive are more likely to take up hospital beds, that seems to be true. The unvaccinated with a prior infection are not.

This is important because the general populace has been whipped up into a frenzy and pointed roughly in the direction of myself and people like me, who are not an issue. With asshats like Macron stirring the pot like this, its leading us to a scary place, and its all for political points.

Do you have anything showing the counterpoint? I'm very interested in seeing it if you do.

The point of making this distinction is that hundreds of millions of people have already been infected and shouldn't be hounded and harassed by people yo take a vaccine if they don't want it.

If you want me to worry that unvaccinated people with a prior infection are clogging up ICUs, show me evidence that its actually happening and I'd be happy to get on board.

If something is difficult for you to justify, does that mean you shouldn't have to justify it?

Anwyay, we knew that reinfections were rare up through delta (even the CDC acknowledges this on their website, and there are plenty of studies to back this up). Given that, it should be safe to assume that ICU visits as a result of a rare reinfection are even rarer.

> And what do you think we do to distinguish between the supposedly two distinct groups of antivaxxers?

For data collection? We shouldn't need to because of the logic above. But if you wanted to confirm, it should be possible to study this by following up on ICU patients using all the various test result databases and following up with the ones who survive.

As for passports and really all of this covid fallout, my overly optimistic hope is that natural immunity will continue to hold, everyone will have had it after omicron finishes, and everyone will be able to empathize with each other when there isn't as much fear and division between the "clean vaccine takers" and the unclean infected (plague rats, covidiots, antivaxxers, Herman Cain awards, whatever other handy slurs people have come up with).

Of course, realistically, this shit (our behaviors) will all be with us for decades to come. Once you spend enough resources on getting people to think and feel a certain way, good luck reversing it.

I think you (and everyone else) should throw away the term antivaxxer, and say specifically what you mean.

I think seronaive is a reasonable term for the unvaccinated and never infected. Recovered is good for those with a prior infection, if you actially need to distinguish based on their vaccine status, then do that: say recovered with or without x number of shots. Anti mandate, anti mask, anti lockdown, these are all things that can exist on their own that everyone lumps into "antivax". We should just say what we mean if we actually want to communicate with each other rather than play tribal politics. How hard is it to use a few extra words?