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The lost art of recovery for healing

theguardian.com

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Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#11

Post by tsimionescu »

agon88 wrote: post #6
hutzlibu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very old wisdom, though. In the traditional art of healing with herbs, there were no strict formulas either. Like this plant for this sickness and this for that. It was usually a mixture always mixed for that one patients unique condition. I am pretty sure modern medicine knows that, too. That fine graining therapy to the individual provides better results. But that approach is simply too expensive as it requir…

Checkout the documentary 'Ayurveda: the art of being' by Pan Nalin. Very much speaks about this ancient tradition, how everything is energy and healing with herbs. Recommended.

> how everything is energy and healing with herbs.

Thanks for letting us know we should avoid this woo woo documentary!

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#13

Post by hutzlibu »

tsimionescu wrote: post #10
hutzlibu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very old wisdom, though. In the traditional art of healing with herbs, there were no strict formulas either. Like this plant for this sickness and this for that. It was usually a mixture always mixed for that one patients unique condition. I am pretty sure modern medicine knows that, too. That fine graining therapy to the individual provides better results. But that approach is simply too expensive as it requir…

> Like this plant for this sickness and this for that. It was usually a mixture always mixed for that one patients unique condition. Sure, and that's because they mostly had no idea what they were doing. If you have a bacterial infection today, you can take an antibiotic. If you have a dangerous viral infection, an anti-viral may help (though there are few of those). If you have a parasite, you get a very specific an…

"No woo woo plant energy "healing" achieves anything close to that."

Well, for starters, many medicines are just extraction of a plant or a synthesis of it. And they surely work, too.

And no doubt modern medicine is very good at targeting very specific diseases. And if I would suffer from a specific bacteria and I am too weak, I surely take modern antibiotics as well.

But the body is a very complex system - and there is the danger of only targeting symptoms and not solving the root cause.

Than I would have just fought a symptom and messed up my digestion system, that might further harm myself.

Traditional medicine had more the target of getting the whole system in order again. Removing the root causes for getting sick in the first place, or rather help the body achieve it to do on its own. And not make him dependant on pills for all eternity.

In my perception, the systematic wholesome thinking is more and more replacing the old mechanistic approach in modern medicine and I like that.

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#14

Post by bitschubser_ »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #7
bitschubser_ wrote: post #4

>Drugs can be the least of healing, and the idea that therapies must be something that you swallow or inject... This quite resonates with the current zeitgeist, there's no patience and "we" want always instant relief. If I have a cold of fill ill I just rest and recover (which happens seldom luckily). I'm also lucky as my workplace understands this quite good, some days recovery and rest are always better than gongin…

The thing is that in the US and increasingly in the UK, if you're sick it's considered your own fault, responsibility, and expense. Employers do not care about you, if you do not work they do not want you. From a purely utilitarian / capitalist viewpoint it makes sense, why pay for a service (an employee) if they do not provide? But there's a difference between an employee and a contractor. And it's not a human way t…

grewing up in germany I also remember that my parents/grandparents regularly went "on a cure" somewhere in germany (on top of vacation), often somewhere near the sea, which where prescribed and paid partially by health insurance ("parent-child-cures" where also quite common). that somehow changed a lot in my generation...

protip for the german people here... you can claim up to 10 days "bildungsurlaub" every 2 years (in some states paid/in some unpaid) and yoga retreats or similiar are also possible ;)

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#15

Post by watwut »

hutzlibu wrote: post #13
tsimionescu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like this plant for this sickness and this for that. It was usually a mixture always mixed for that one patients unique condition. Sure, and that's because they mostly had no idea what they were doing. If you have a bacterial infection today, you can take an antibiotic. If you have a dangerous viral infection, an anti-viral may help (though there are few of those). If you have a parasite, you get a very specific an…

"No woo woo plant energy "healing" achieves anything close to that." Well, for starters, many medicines are just extraction of a plant or a synthesis of it. And they surely work, too. And no doubt modern medicine is very good at targeting very specific diseases. And if I would suffer from a specific bacteria and I am too weak, I surely take modern antibiotics as well. But the body is a very complex system - and there…

> Well, for starters, many medicines are just extraction of a plant or a synthesis of it. And they surely work, to.

Sure. And they are also completely different thing then was achievable from those herbs in times we talk about.

Yes, in fact, modern medicine works better then 200 years ago.

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#16

Post by tomohawk »

Ahead of a planned surgery, visited the internist who would be taking care of things post surgery. He stated flat out that doctors and medicine do not heal. His idea was that the body heals itself. He saw it as his goal to make sure that any medical interventions did not prevent that. Excellent doctor.

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#17

Post by birtoise »

tsimionescu wrote: post #9
JSeymourATL wrote: post #2

> Every illness is unique, which means that all recoveries must also be in some sense unique. There is no one-size-fits-all to getting better. Brilliant!

I am hoping this is sarcasm - the quoted phrase is trite and meaningless.

No post body was provided.

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#18

Post by m_fayer »

hutzlibu wrote: post #5
JSeymourATL wrote: post #2

> Every illness is unique, which means that all recoveries must also be in some sense unique. There is no one-size-fits-all to getting better. Brilliant!

It is very old wisdom, though. In the traditional art of healing with herbs, there were no strict formulas either. Like this plant for this sickness and this for that. It was usually a mixture always mixed for that one patients unique condition. I am pretty sure modern medicine knows that, too. That fine graining therapy to the individual provides better results. But that approach is simply too expensive as it requir…

Modern medicine is hamstrung by nearly universal application of "evidence based medicine" - which started as a commendable approach but has been twisted into: "we diagnose A and then find therapy B with the most institutional buy-in, and if that fails or is inapplicable, we call the patient crazy and/or employ other tactics to make the patient go away".

Especially in the age of complex and poorly understood chronic illness, doctors should guide the patient through a process of "clinical experimentation" while also counseling them to improve environmental and lifestyle factors. But western health systems are laughably underresourced for this. So they remain competent when it comes to cut-and-dry situations, and misery-makers elsewhere.

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#19

Post by KineticLensman »

JSeymourATL wrote: post #2

> Every illness is unique, which means that all recoveries must also be in some sense unique. There is no one-size-fits-all to getting better. Brilliant!

> Every illness is unique, which means that all recoveries must also be in some sense unique. There is no one-size-fits-all to getting better

When I had my cardiac arrest due to Ventricular Fibrillation, I was very glad that the bystanders immediately applied a generic off-the-shelf solution (CPR and a public defibrillator) and in doing so kept me alive without brain damage due to lack of oxygen. Rather than treating me as a unique individual who needed a tailored solution.

Re: The lost art of recovery for healing

#20

Post by puszczyk »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #7
bitschubser_ wrote: post #4

>Drugs can be the least of healing, and the idea that therapies must be something that you swallow or inject... This quite resonates with the current zeitgeist, there's no patience and "we" want always instant relief. If I have a cold of fill ill I just rest and recover (which happens seldom luckily). I'm also lucky as my workplace understands this quite good, some days recovery and rest are always better than gongin…

The thing is that in the US and increasingly in the UK, if you're sick it's considered your own fault, responsibility, and expense. Employers do not care about you, if you do not work they do not want you. From a purely utilitarian / capitalist viewpoint it makes sense, why pay for a service (an employee) if they do not provide? But there's a difference between an employee and a contractor. And it's not a human way t…

> In my own country, thankfully, we get paid time off if we're sick. If we're sick long-term (I don't know what the cutoff is), the employer has to pay us 70% of wages for a year, after which the government takes over

1y sounds like a long time, esp for smaller companies (like if you have say 5 ppl on a payroll). I wonder if they can insure against such a risk (say if an insurer can cover the salary if absence longer than a month).

In Poland this is 70% (if in hospital), 80% (if general sick leave), and 100% (pregnancy related). Your employer covers this for 34 days, then the social insurance takes over. IIRC if the absence is over 6 months, then the social insurance stops paying % of your salary and pays some low fixed disability benefit.

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