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A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

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Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#11

Post by igorkraw »

AniseAbyss wrote: post #10
Xylakant wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have a German reference. There’s multiple brands of bio products that are Demeter certified, milk, meat, cheese, … The Demeter Bio Label requires “Hornmist” and “Hornkiesel” as fertilizer as per their guidelines, see Section 7.3 (1) and (2) https://www.demeter.de/sites/default/files/richtlinien/richt... Hornmist is dung-filled cow horns that get buried at full moon preferably, later dig out and spread: https:/…

What if I told you people are lying pieces of shit, say that they care about animal welfare in surveys and then in the supermarket buy the cheapest brand anyway?

I'd call you an unproductive cynic, point to the rise in eco and vegan labels that empirically provides counter evidence and move on.

This perspective adds nothing but a feeling of superiority, I'd rather think about how to replace the culty brand with a secular one and figure out how to work on climate change and corporate misconduct in my small capacity

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#12

Post by lkozma »

Xylakant wrote: post #6
serverlessmom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL: That there is a brand of milk in Germany that involves moonlit rituals? I tried looking up this information on their website and didn't see anything about it. Could you possibly link me to more information about this? I'm really curious. I do hope that someday hippies and non hippies alike find an answer for climate change and general wellness of the planet and all it's creatures.

I only have a German reference. There’s multiple brands of bio products that are Demeter certified, milk, meat, cheese, … The Demeter Bio Label requires “Hornmist” and “Hornkiesel” as fertilizer as per their guidelines, see Section 7.3 (1) and (2) https://www.demeter.de/sites/default/files/richtlinien/richt... Hornmist is dung-filled cow horns that get buried at full moon preferably, later dig out and spread: https:/…

Honest question: who does it harm? These aspects that you mention may not be to your (or to my) taste, but if they are relatively harmless and the other stuff is overwhelmingly good, why not let it go?

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#13

Post by nicoburns »

Xylakant wrote: post #6
serverlessmom wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TIL: That there is a brand of milk in Germany that involves moonlit rituals? I tried looking up this information on their website and didn't see anything about it. Could you possibly link me to more information about this? I'm really curious. I do hope that someday hippies and non hippies alike find an answer for climate change and general wellness of the planet and all it's creatures.

I only have a German reference. There’s multiple brands of bio products that are Demeter certified, milk, meat, cheese, … The Demeter Bio Label requires “Hornmist” and “Hornkiesel” as fertilizer as per their guidelines, see Section 7.3 (1) and (2) https://www.demeter.de/sites/default/files/richtlinien/richt... Hornmist is dung-filled cow horns that get buried at full moon preferably, later dig out and spread: https:/…

I believe the English term for this may be “bio-dynamic”, which is a movement similar to the organic movement but with stricter standards, and more emphasis on what farming techniques you should use (crop rotation, etc), rather than just what you shouldn’t do (e.g. use pesticides). From what I’ve seen, there seem to be a bunch of good ideas in there, along with a lot of ritual rubbish.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#14

Post by Xylakant »

lkozma wrote: post #12
Xylakant wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have a German reference. There’s multiple brands of bio products that are Demeter certified, milk, meat, cheese, … The Demeter Bio Label requires “Hornmist” and “Hornkiesel” as fertilizer as per their guidelines, see Section 7.3 (1) and (2) https://www.demeter.de/sites/default/files/richtlinien/richt... Hornmist is dung-filled cow horns that get buried at full moon preferably, later dig out and spread: https:/…

Honest question: who does it harm? These aspects that you mention may not be to your (or to my) taste, but if they are relatively harmless and the other stuff is overwhelmingly good, why not let it go?

Fundamentally, the ritualistic behavior harms belief in science. Doing things because we believe in magic of any kind is fostering belief in other magic - for example healing by similar magic, the roots for both go back to Rudolf Steiner.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#15

Post by Xylakant »

nicoburns wrote: post #13
Xylakant wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only have a German reference. There’s multiple brands of bio products that are Demeter certified, milk, meat, cheese, … The Demeter Bio Label requires “Hornmist” and “Hornkiesel” as fertilizer as per their guidelines, see Section 7.3 (1) and (2) https://www.demeter.de/sites/default/files/richtlinien/richt... Hornmist is dung-filled cow horns that get buried at full moon preferably, later dig out and spread: https:/…

I believe the English term for this may be “bio-dynamic”, which is a movement similar to the organic movement but with stricter standards, and more emphasis on what farming techniques you should use (crop rotation, etc), rather than just what you shouldn’t do (e.g. use pesticides). From what I’ve seen, there seem to be a bunch of good ideas in there, along with a lot of ritual rubbish.

I buy one of the Demeter-certified brands of milk. It’s just the best you can buy, taste wise if you ask me. It still irks me that I have to choose between good milk from ethically raised cows and not supporting belief in magic.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#16

Post by SyzygistSix »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

The Chinese medicine hippies are into is pretty much only the herbalist aspect of it, along with acupuncture. I know a lot of people involved in this and exactly zero of them agree with or do anything with animal products, especially anything rare or endangered.

Additionally, many of them embrace scientific knowledge and are very interested in why, and if, remedies work rather than treating them as magic and de facto superstitious rules.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#17

Post by shakna »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #9
Xylakant wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's most likely true that hippies aren't the largest group of believers in magical potions from animal parts — I certainly don't have the numbers and I'm going by intuition, but there's likely also a difference between the number of people and the size of the market created by those people. Not all people have equal purchasing power. Despite the difference in purchasing power, there’s no indication that rhino horn…

> Why would you lunp Greta Thunberg in there? By age alone, she’s not to blame for climate change. And what she does explicitly advocate for is in her own words: “Listen to the scientists” You're right, she isn't to blame for climate change, but she is one of the most prominent characters in the world and when she says "personally, I am against nuclear power"[0], people listen. It causes real damage. She does indeed…

> She does indeed say "listen to the scientists", but the scientists say we need nuclear power[1]. Which she is against. Confusingly.

She's a kid. Expecting a kid to be holistically consistent, when most adults still can't, isn't something that is reasonable.

People do listen to her, but... She's a kid. Expecting her to be responsible for all of her actions isn't something that even the law expects.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#18

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

SyzygistSix wrote: post #16
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

The Chinese medicine hippies are into is pretty much only the herbalist aspect of it, along with acupuncture. I know a lot of people involved in this and exactly zero of them agree with or do anything with animal products, especially anything rare or endangered. Additionally, many of them embrace scientific knowledge and are very interested in why, and if, remedies work rather than treating them as magic and de facto…

Well, that's comforting to some degree. Of course, your recount is as anecdotal as mine, and unfortunately my experience (or at least, the parts of it that confirmation bias pushes into the forefront of my recollection) has been that of more enthusiasm for crystals, homeopathy, chakras, auras, tarot cards, and other mystical bullshit. The people I'm thinking of like to believe they are against the use of animal products, while at the same time using animal products through selective oblivion. It's a bit like former PETA VP Mary Beth Sweetland not considering herself a hypocrite for condemning the use of animal products in medicine despite using animal products to treat her diabetes.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#19

Post by LightG »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #18
SyzygistSix wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese medicine hippies are into is pretty much only the herbalist aspect of it, along with acupuncture. I know a lot of people involved in this and exactly zero of them agree with or do anything with animal products, especially anything rare or endangered. Additionally, many of them embrace scientific knowledge and are very interested in why, and if, remedies work rather than treating them as magic and de facto…

Well, that's comforting to some degree. Of course, your recount is as anecdotal as mine, and unfortunately my experience (or at least, the parts of it that confirmation bias pushes into the forefront of my recollection) has been that of more enthusiasm for crystals, homeopathy, chakras, auras, tarot cards, and other mystical bullshit. The people I'm thinking of like to believe they are against the use of animal produ…

Do you think that's the majority of any significant group out there?

Get f@cking real.

Re: A project to bring back the northern white rhino from the edge of extinction

#20

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

shakna wrote: post #17
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would you lunp Greta Thunberg in there? By age alone, she’s not to blame for climate change. And what she does explicitly advocate for is in her own words: “Listen to the scientists” You're right, she isn't to blame for climate change, but she is one of the most prominent characters in the world and when she says "personally, I am against nuclear power"[0], people listen. It causes real damage. She does indeed…

> She does indeed say "listen to the scientists", but the scientists say we need nuclear power[1]. Which she is against. Confusingly. She's a kid. Expecting a kid to be holistically consistent, when most adults still can't, isn't something that is reasonable. People do listen to her, but... She's a kid. Expecting her to be responsible for all of her actions isn't something that even the law expects.

You're right, but the damage is still done. As you say, people do listen to her. I'm not sure how that problem can be fixed.
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