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What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

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Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#11
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we're talking about people who have never programmed before; we're talking about maybe COBOL and Fortran experts, or people who write low-level C but can only find Python and Ruby jobs.

Are we really at the point where engineers can't find jobs because they only know C++ instead of Python and Ruby web stacks? This is a bit concerning, if so.

That was just an example I pulled out of my a^Hhat.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#12

A demand for workers is not the same thing as no unemployment. Plenty of people out there with outdated skillsets.

But that's their point. When you have people with no jobs, that counts for the unemployment. But even I know how difficult it is to find people to hire for our company as I do HR for a technology firm. There is a high demand, just shortage of people to fill the positions.

This can also be a function of density of capable talent where you are. I know in my area it can take a while to get a technology position (took me 8 months) due to there being very intense competition. However I did receive more than one offer to an area that I could not afford to relocate to due to other issues (mostly taxes). It seems like there are some great disparities in where the talent is and where the jobs are. The solution would seem to be for someone (people or the company) to move or to find a way for people to be able to work from a larger area around the business.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's their point. When you have people with no jobs, that counts for the unemployment. But even I know how difficult it is to find people to hire for our company as I do HR for a technology firm. There is a high demand, just shortage of people to fill the positions.

I see an increasing unwillingness of companies to train people who don't have EXACTLY the right skillset. This used be different in the 90s.

My experience differs - I think it was in fact the rule of thumb in the 90s... until the dotcom gold rush got sufficiently out of hand that hiring people and training them became the only reasonable solution.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#14
post #8

To become a software developer (especially the kind with a CS related degree), you need: -A highly analytical mindset -The ability to handle tough math -The ability to read dense material and process it quickly -The mindset to persevere, test, investigate, and find obscure problems in complex systems -The ability to see a project through to its finish -The ability to explain complex logic and design, verbally and in…

I don't think that math is universally necessary - it's actually rare that I need to sit down and write equations and think about something mathematically. (Unless I'm a genius who does it in his head, and trust me, I'm not.)

And a 25-hour-a-week job doesn't seem that overwhelming. I think I worked 20 hours a week with a 30 minute commute each way - unless you're having a truly difficult time with the core concepts, a 15 hour course load and a 25 hour work load isn't much harder than starting any new job.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's their point. When you have people with no jobs, that counts for the unemployment. But even I know how difficult it is to find people to hire for our company as I do HR for a technology firm. There is a high demand, just shortage of people to fill the positions.

I see an increasing unwillingness of companies to train people who don't have EXACTLY the right skillset. This used be different in the 90s.

Which, as far as I can see, has led to a vicious circle where developers will often refuse/bitch/complain about working on something that doesn't increase their immediate employability prospects. Not to mention CVs that quite often have a half a page or so of solid acronyms to increase the chances of being found by simplistic recruiting company search engines.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#16
post #8

To become a software developer (especially the kind with a CS related degree), you need: -A highly analytical mindset -The ability to handle tough math -The ability to read dense material and process it quickly -The mindset to persevere, test, investigate, and find obscure problems in complex systems -The ability to see a project through to its finish -The ability to explain complex logic and design, verbally and in…

I agree. Just like I'm not going to tell someone who is more analytical to get into graphic design. Creative people go to school for design to sharpen their skill, not to learn how to think creatively.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#17
I'm observing some people trying to break into technology. Yes, there are online tools available. Yes, many of them are free. One of the complaints I hear is that the target platform you choose moves so fast.

Generalized, it means software -- the technology and the economy -- runs at a higher tempo. In order to step into the stream, you have to first match the new tempo.

I suspect that the rest of the economy stays in a slump because they are out-of-phase tempo-wise with software technology ... or that the tools that drive up the tempo of innovation in software has not made it out to the mainstream yet. (And even if it did, it will leave people behind simply because there are people who will refuse to impedance match).

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#18
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we're talking about people who have never programmed before; we're talking about maybe COBOL and Fortran experts, or people who write low-level C but can only find Python and Ruby jobs.

Are we really at the point where engineers can't find jobs because they only know C++ instead of Python and Ruby web stacks? This is a bit concerning, if so.

It happens. I used to work with a guy whose expertise was Java GUI development and who knew NOTHING about web stacks at all. He's been looking for work, and kept getting told that it was a big problem that he didn't know anything about web development. Someone even told him in an interview that he was getting dangerously close to the "point of no return" where his skills were so stale that he'd be unemployable anywhere else.

I spent a lot of late nights helping him come up to speed because he's not a bad guy. Even though he probably should have been doing this himself, the fact of the matter is that he chose poorly and now knows a lot about something that is growing less and less valuable every day. You can say that he's not an "engineer" but that's really just the No True Scotsman fallacy talking. It's really hard to compete on the job market when hiring managers just cut out huge swathes of your knowledge a priori, and the fact that happens is what concerns me.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we're talking about people who have never programmed before; we're talking about maybe COBOL and Fortran experts, or people who write low-level C but can only find Python and Ruby jobs.

Are we really at the point where engineers can't find jobs because they only know C++ instead of Python and Ruby web stacks? This is a bit concerning, if so.

It varies based on location. The unrealistic "we require 5 years experience in a technology that's 3 years old" HR people still exit. Even more common is N years of desktop app programming experience counting as 0 years of web programming experience (regardless of platform).
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