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Plato's Dashboards

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Re: Plato's Dashboards

#11

Post by throwaway2331 »

cconstantine wrote: post #6
throwaway2331 wrote: post #3

I'll barge in and say that there's this meme in business schools that: "what gets measured, gets done." They're mostly there to serve as the source of truth, whether or not a specific manager is getting a bonus (and by how much). Generally, the best metrics are "based in reality" (and usually revolve around inflow and outflow of money) -- but those are hard to fudge, without playing accounting games, and even harder…

The only thing that matters is revenue, and if it can't be easily measured against revenue it doesn't exist. I am so tired of this line of reasoning. It's poisoning the industry, ruining products, and sucking the joy out of work. What about making a quality product because you have a passion for it? Nope, make a broken MVP and move on to the next customer. If I can't maintain a metric until I can tie it to revenue, t…

Commerce is a vulgar endeavor.

Whatever nobility or higher morality finds within it, it's just an exception that slipped through the cracks.

Idealism towards the external world will always be met with defeat (you simply do not have the power to fight more than one battle, with one person).

The only thing left is to serve as a role model, standing tall and never wavering, for your values and ideals---so that those around you may follow in your footsteps, if they so wish.

Perhaps you could start by refusing to play the KPI game? What is anyone really going to do, besides through vacuous diatribes about being a "team player," and such nonsense. The only power these corporate constructs have is that which is surrendered to it.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#12

Post by zaidf »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #5
throwaway2331 wrote: post #3

I'll barge in and say that there's this meme in business schools that: "what gets measured, gets done." They're mostly there to serve as the source of truth, whether or not a specific manager is getting a bonus (and by how much). Generally, the best metrics are "based in reality" (and usually revolve around inflow and outflow of money) -- but those are hard to fudge, without playing accounting games, and even harder…

> In my opinion, the only useful metric is profit generated. Everything else is just an emotional safety blanket for uncertainty. This too can be a toxic metric. Only focusing on what looks good in the quarterly report encourages a type of short-sightedness that has been the undoing of many businesses.

In my opinion, the only useful metric is profit generated

We know by observing private equity that the easiest way to hack this metric is by doing layoffs until there is imminent threat of the business vanishing.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#13

Post by cconstantine »

throwaway2331 wrote: post #11
cconstantine wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that matters is revenue, and if it can't be easily measured against revenue it doesn't exist. I am so tired of this line of reasoning. It's poisoning the industry, ruining products, and sucking the joy out of work. What about making a quality product because you have a passion for it? Nope, make a broken MVP and move on to the next customer. If I can't maintain a metric until I can tie it to revenue, t…

Commerce is a vulgar endeavor. Whatever nobility or higher morality finds within it, it's just an exception that slipped through the cracks. Idealism towards the external world will always be met with defeat (you simply do not have the power to fight more than one battle, with one person). The only thing left is to serve as a role model, standing tall and never wavering, for your values and ideals---so that those aro…

I'm going to assume you're a business person.

Commerce is vulgar, but as long as you're making (b|m)illions off me could you let me do my thing? Stop taking things that work for tech folk, misapplying them to business concerns without any intellectual honestly and deciding they don't work for anyone. Metrics work. The problem you people have with them is that they are a branch of statistics and if there's one thing business folks love to do it's lie with statistics. It's all fun and games until you start lying to yourself and start seeing the negative consequences.

How do you propose I escape the KPI game? It's how I'm evaluated by people who pay me. It's become how you gain influence in an organization. I can't escape to another place, because they all operate this way now. More and more I'm seeing "tech" leaders, big and small, that are much better at playing the game than holding any kind of technical excellence.

I'm not looking for some idealized world. At this point, I'm looking to have some fun while I get taken advantage of.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#14

Post by a9h74j »

FWIW [from having skimmed] This should be of interest to people interested in UX where there are safety ramifications.

Thus, the original article title might be a bit misleading. It is not necessarily about businesses running based upon illusions.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#15

Post by allenu »

throwaway2331 wrote: post #3

I'll barge in and say that there's this meme in business schools that: "what gets measured, gets done." They're mostly there to serve as the source of truth, whether or not a specific manager is getting a bonus (and by how much). Generally, the best metrics are "based in reality" (and usually revolve around inflow and outflow of money) -- but those are hard to fudge, without playing accounting games, and even harder…

We had a case of this recently where I work.

The project I've been on for the last couple of years has had dashboards and monitors and we as engineers have been striving to keep the system humming and if any issues trigger alarms, we jump on them.

More recently there's been a push to handle alarms more quickly (get those response times down!). I'm not sure why since I don't know if we've really had user complaints about any of this (not that our systems are perfect, but the user-facing issues aren't due to us not responding quickly enough to alarms). It never made sense to me that these numbers were of utmost importance, and important enough to visit in biweekly status meetings.

Your post now makes me see more clearly what I had a hunch: somebody decided to take on this mission of getting response times down as an action item and by god everyone in their org is going to meet that mission.

Anyway, the product we were working on got cancelled recently, which funnily enough has nothing to do with alarm response time or any of our engineering dashboards and more to do with the "money in/money out" metric. Fancy that.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#16

Post by ngcc_hk »

“I'll barge in and say that there's this meme in business schools that: "what gets measured, gets done."” The key is those that sone might not be most useful.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#17

Post by dsr_ »

zaidf wrote: post #12
marginalia_nu wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my opinion, the only useful metric is profit generated. Everything else is just an emotional safety blanket for uncertainty. This too can be a toxic metric. Only focusing on what looks good in the quarterly report encourages a type of short-sightedness that has been the undoing of many businesses.

In my opinion, the only useful metric is profit generated We know by observing private equity that the easiest way to hack this metric is by doing layoffs until there is imminent threat of the business vanishing.

It's also not observable in real-time; often only quarterly or annually. That makes it really hard to make tactical decisions.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#18

Post by dsr_ »

cconstantine wrote: post #6
throwaway2331 wrote: post #3

I'll barge in and say that there's this meme in business schools that: "what gets measured, gets done." They're mostly there to serve as the source of truth, whether or not a specific manager is getting a bonus (and by how much). Generally, the best metrics are "based in reality" (and usually revolve around inflow and outflow of money) -- but those are hard to fudge, without playing accounting games, and even harder…

The only thing that matters is revenue, and if it can't be easily measured against revenue it doesn't exist. I am so tired of this line of reasoning. It's poisoning the industry, ruining products, and sucking the joy out of work. What about making a quality product because you have a passion for it? Nope, make a broken MVP and move on to the next customer. If I can't maintain a metric until I can tie it to revenue, t…

Revenue is frequently gamed, anyway. If you tell a large sales department that revenue must be maximized this year: all bonuses depend on total contract value, then they will happily destroy the profitability of every new contract. Selling 2 million widgets for the price that competitors charge for 500,000 widgets is easy.

During the first Internet boom, when telephone modems and $20/month all-you-can-eat ISPs were the hot thing, Lucent made the best point-of-presence device, the Ascend Max: very nearly everything you needed to get access for a town in one box. Lucent discovered that new ISPs had little startup cash but generated strong monthly recurring revenue, so Lucent financed the Max for the ISPs, with the highly in-demand Max itself as the collateral. After all, if an ISP collapsed, the used Max could be sold again at nearly full price.

Lucent didn't count on the entire ISP market consolidating.

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#19

Post by malshe »

phillipcarter wrote: post #4

I don't have much to add other than this reminds me of the obsession around "satisfaction" for product metrics and why that seems to always boil down to slapping NPS on it because it's a number and execs like numbers. I think this is essential reading if anyone's interested on a product-focused tangent for the topic: https://articles.uie.com/net-promoter-score-considered-harmf...

I really liked this article. Thanks for sharing!

Re: Plato's Dashboards

#20

Post by throwaway2331 »

cconstantine wrote: post #13
throwaway2331 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commerce is a vulgar endeavor. Whatever nobility or higher morality finds within it, it's just an exception that slipped through the cracks. Idealism towards the external world will always be met with defeat (you simply do not have the power to fight more than one battle, with one person). The only thing left is to serve as a role model, standing tall and never wavering, for your values and ideals---so that those aro…

I'm going to assume you're a business person. Commerce is vulgar, but as long as you're making (b|m)illions off me could you let me do my thing? Stop taking things that work for tech folk, misapplying them to business concerns without any intellectual honestly and deciding they don't work for anyone. Metrics work. The problem you people have with them is that they are a branch of statistics and if there's one thing b…

I'm a cynical realist who held the same viewpoint as you: "everyone's a fucking liar. Can't they see all the shit that's being peddled is just bullshit?"

Then, I stopped worrying and loved the grift.

It's just a game to play.

I shelter my intellectual "honesty" and idealism within my side-projects.

For business? I play to win.

It's the only way I've found to stop myself from becoming a jaded hollow husk.

Escaping the KPI game? There are organizations that don't self-fellate with KPIs (rare, or impossible, as it may seem). I've found that the "corporate bullshit" curve follows the Dunning Kruger curve (with fat tails). You have the vast bulk of bullshit in the center, the average SME/Enterprise, where everyone is trying to peddle bullshit faster than their competition. On one end you have the "high-performance," "we're making obscene amounts of money, and we want to make even more" a la buyside high finance (note: there is a lot of "playing the game," but the game isn't as petty, because people have real shit to do, with a lot of money at stake). On the other end you have the "we're growing. We're making money, and we're busy getting more features out the door; we don't have time for this bullshit that pretends to be working" start-up type where everyone knows how much everyone else is "outputting." There's no room to coast; there's no layers upon layers of bureaucracy and bullshit metrics to disguise your actual worth to the org.

If neither of those two fit your temperament, then perhaps you should find a research outfit? There will still be games to play, however.

If you generally view most people as incompetent, and that you're constantly having to bear the brunt of the terrible decisions of those above you: you should start your own firm (or find more competent people to work with).

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