Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#11

Post by jballanc » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 2:05 AM UTC

Anti-Ratfish wrote: post #9

kenjackson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your tablet story, which is obviously fictional, but I think raises a good point. Apple was originally working on a tablet, before the iPhone. Someone (maybe Jobs) decided that a phone would be better use of the technology today. Imagine a world where they release the iPad in 2007 w/ no app store. That tablet gets slaughtered in the market. It may well prevent the iPhone from ever getting made, much less gi…

The turn around began before '07, and it wasn't the iPhone that started it. But that is a good point, Ill bet the story would have been quite different if the iPad came first.

...ah, but that's the whole point! The iPad could never have come out before the iPhone because it wasn't perfect yet.

In fact, were the iPad under development at a different company, it probably would have been released in '07. The logic and reasoning from the top execs would have been: "Well, we know we will sell some. We'll probably make back our investment and then some! Besides, working out all of the kinks will take another 3 years and billions of dollars. Who wants to do that?"

This is what annoys me about most people's understanding of MVP. I see too many companies whose approach is: "Here's our thing. It does these 10 things. Each feature works. SHIP IT!"

Instead, the Apple approach is:

ENGINEER: "Here's our thing. It does 10 things."

MANAGER: "Does thing 1 work 100% of the time?"

ENGINEER: "Um...more like 85%"

MANAGER: "Is thing 2 so intuitive that your Grandma could explain it to me?"

ENGINEER: "Well...there's still 5 panels of configuration required..."

(...time passes...)

MANAGER: "Make it do 1 thing."

ENGINEER: "But, but..."

MANAGER: "And it better do that 1 thing better than any damn product even GOD could create!"

ENGINEER: "Ok!"

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#12

Post by xal » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 4:27 AM UTC

Zakharov wrote: post #10

Under Jobs' leadership, Apple has done 10 times the amount of relevant homework of most companies — internal competitions, supply chain training, endless deal-making, endless recruiting, training, and generating and sustaining employee excitement that you just can't fake. If others emulated that, all of that, their results would be a lot more like Apple's. Apple has fairly high profit margins on their products, and t…

you are being downvoted because your comment has a fairly obvious chicken and egg problem which I don't think you fully reasoned to it's logical conclusion.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#13

Post by daimyoyo » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 4:52 AM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #8

jballanc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this article is mostly bluster. There's no special "internal competition" where 10 teams line up at tribal council and Jobs snuffs out their torches one by one. Organizational structure is very mundane, honestly. There's the kernel team, the CoreOS team, Frameworks, iApps, Pro Apps, the Image and Media Group (affectionately known as IMG), Safari, Developer Tools, Server (now merged with Dev Tools), and maybe on…

Regarding your tablet story, which is obviously fictional, but I think raises a good point. Apple was originally working on a tablet, before the iPhone. Someone (maybe Jobs) decided that a phone would be better use of the technology today. Imagine a world where they release the iPad in 2007 w/ no app store. That tablet gets slaughtered in the market. It may well prevent the iPhone from ever getting made, much less gi…

This is what worries me about Apple post Steve Jobs. While I am almost totally certain that there are people in the company with all the vision and creativity of Steve, I don't think anyone else has the clout to pivot the company on a dime the way Steve did.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#14

Post by harichinnan » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 5:34 AM UTC

xal wrote: post #12

Zakharov wrote: post #10

Under Jobs' leadership, Apple has done 10 times the amount of relevant homework of most companies — internal competitions, supply chain training, endless deal-making, endless recruiting, training, and generating and sustaining employee excitement that you just can't fake. If others emulated that, all of that, their results would be a lot more like Apple's. Apple has fairly high profit margins on their products, and t…

you are being downvoted because your comment has a fairly obvious chicken and egg problem which I don't think you fully reasoned to it's logical conclusion.

I don't see the chicken and egg problem. The company has lots of money to spend on R&D. So they can spend money on competing ideas and choose winners. Not all companies have money to spend on R&D.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#15

Post by nickheer » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 5:50 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #2

You can't blame the audience for believing the eureka myth when new designs and new features are revealed in an instant, on stage, often punctuated with a brief utterance of boom. Steve makes it look easy. Arguably, it's not dissimilar to the techniques of showmanship that a magician uses. Months and years are spent perfecting their stage performances so that when you finally show an audience, they don't see the rope…

See also products seemingly appearing in stores.

This is more pronounced with Mac/iPod announcements. Steve will announce the new product and the kicker is that it's available "today in Apple Stores." That's one hell of a trick.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#16

Post by bignoggins » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 6:49 AM UTC

harichinnan wrote: post #14

xal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are being downvoted because your comment has a fairly obvious chicken and egg problem which I don't think you fully reasoned to it's logical conclusion.

I don't see the chicken and egg problem. The company has lots of money to spend on R&D. So they can spend money on competing ideas and choose winners. Not all companies have money to spend on R&D.

and where does the company get the money to spend on R&D? That is the chicken and egg problem. That's like saying Warren Buffet is good at picking stocks because he is rich and can afford to spend more money picking stocks.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#17

Post by Mz » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 7:08 AM UTC

I don't think you can realistically quantify whatever it is that goes on in the mind of Steve Jobs that sets him apart. Apple fired him and later took him back. I recently read an article which described that to the effect of "he launched Apple twice". It seems to me the words "genius" and "genie" are related and likely this is because whatever goes on inside the minds of some people is so brilliant it might as well be magic to the rest of us. He has something in him that no one else can quite grasp or replicate, some unique combination of knowledge, experience, thought process, perspective and god-knows-what-else which adds up to something that other people simply cannot understand much less do. You can analyze it to death all you want and it won't change it: Other people still won't be able to do whatever it is he does that made Apple what it is.

Not to say analysis has no value. Good, solid analysis has potential to help other people do better. But there is a reason for what this article is calling "the Eureka Myth" and basically some people cannot be entirely demystified, try as we might, even though they may be fully cooperative and making no attempt to "hide" anything.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#18

Post by buff-a » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 7:39 AM UTC

But Apple produces 10 pixel-perfect prototypes for each feature. They compete — and are winnowed down to three, then one, resulting in a highly evolved winner. Because Apple knows the more you compete inside, the less you'll have to compete outside.

Miyamoto does it that way too. Whole ton of people making levels, with Miyamoto reviewing, guiding, and if need be killing.

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#19

Post by IdeaHamster » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 8:58 AM UTC

daimyoyo wrote: post #13

kenjackson wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding your tablet story, which is obviously fictional, but I think raises a good point. Apple was originally working on a tablet, before the iPhone. Someone (maybe Jobs) decided that a phone would be better use of the technology today. Imagine a world where they release the iPad in 2007 w/ no app store. That tablet gets slaughtered in the market. It may well prevent the iPhone from ever getting made, much less gi…

This is what worries me about Apple post Steve Jobs. While I am almost totally certain that there are people in the company with all the vision and creativity of Steve, I don't think anyone else has the clout to pivot the company on a dime the way Steve did.

I think you're wrong. The last couple pivots weren't even his (though I understand that they did have his approval).

Re: Steve Jobs and the Eureka Myth

#20

Post by IdeaHamster » Mon, Sep 05, 2011, 9:01 AM UTC

Mz wrote: post #17

I don't think you can realistically quantify whatever it is that goes on in the mind of Steve Jobs that sets him apart. Apple fired him and later took him back. I recently read an article which described that to the effect of "he launched Apple twice". It seems to me the words "genius" and "genie" are related and likely this is because whatever goes on inside the minds of some people is so brilliant it might as well…

But there is no mystery! All successful business people have the one same trick. Warren Buffet put it best:

Investors should remember that excitement and expenses are their enemies. And if they insist on trying to time their participation in equities, they should try to be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful.

I mean, can it be said any more clearly? The problem is, much like putting chocolate cake in front of a fat man on a diet, telling a CEO that they shouldn't take the quick buck because staying the course will yield greater returns in the long term...well, I guess you can imagine how well that works.