Why it compares just one type of mobility from the very bottom to the very top? Shouldn't it change all the stages in between? Also, assuming we always have the same bell curve of wealth distribution what does it matter who is where? Assuming some poor guy became rich, if the bell curve stays the same it means also that someone else dropped to become poor, so overall, what is the point? If you say the point is that having the opportunity encourage people to work and that in itself improves the situation for everyone then the American optimism is more valuable, even if it is not true.
Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
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Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#12Seems to fundamentally confuse social mobility and financial mobility?
Simply earning more doesn't move your social class.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#13America is being attacked by pervasive narratives like this. News rags the whole world over are shitting on us, meanwhile authoritarian regimes are rising to power. It's a narrative dismantling, and we're being played like fools. America is still the best country in the world to start a business and take risks. America still has more freedoms (speech especially) than most of the world. (Side note: The left wants to p…
Don’t blame the teacher for poor grades and don’t excuse poor grades by pointing out the mediocre students.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#14The article measures mobility based on one's percentile movement across the income distribution. There are more rungs to climb in the US because there's a wider income range, whereas in Europe income differences are compressed. The same income increase in absolute terms gets you more social mobility in Europe than in the US.
I'm initially skeptical of studies that imply large-scale misunderstanding among the public about their own lives; here that Americans are too optimistic and Europeans are too pessimistic. I'm sure there's some truth to it, but it's not the whole story. The conclusion of the article is in part a reflection of the methodology.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#15I think perhaps the US makes it hard for a single person to move from bottom to top quintile. But I bet that the US is the country that makes it the easiest for you to be in the bottom quintile and have grandchildren in the top quintile.
Basically, I think the US is likely the best for generational family mobility. I have seen this story many times with immigrants. The immigrants come over and work often very menial jobs. Their kids study hard and go to colleges and end up as white collar jobs. Their kids in turn (the grandkids) often go to elite colleges and end up with elite careers (lawyers, doctors, etc).
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#16Social mobility is really hard to measure, but all else equal, I think America is the best place in the world for a poor person to become filthy rich (top 0.1%) but not the best place in the world for a poor person to simply transition to middle/upper class.
It could definitely be better, but I think there are more opportunities than most people realize. Joining the military is a big one; you get paid to learn a marketable skill, usually have your college tuition paid for, and you get to move out of your hometown. I knew a few people who joined because it was a quick way to get out of their shitty hometown where the options were sell drugs, or be poor.
Knowledge of what's available would probably go a long way towards helping people move up. My wife grew up in a small rural area with no job options besides Wal-Mart and fast food joints, and she hated it so much that she ended up getting enough scholarships to make money earning her undergrad. She's the first person in her family to go to college, and most of the rest think college is super expensive, and don't know about scholarships to help poor people go.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#17Social mobility is really hard to measure, but all else equal, I think America is the best place in the world for a poor person to become filthy rich (top 0.1%) but not the best place in the world for a poor person to simply transition to middle/upper class.
I think it would be easier to become "filthy rich" for a poor person when they start in a nation with free healthcare and education. Because both of those things have a big chance of impacting your poor person's career lastingly if they don't have luck. Most of the 0.1% inherited their wealth or at least came from an well educated background.
> I think it would be easier to become "filthy rich" for a poor person when they start in a nation with free healthcare and education.
Poor people in USA have both free healthcare and education. If they're willing to fill-out some forms.
Edit:
Yes, contrary to the popular belief, poor people in USA do, in fact, get free health care and education.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#18This gives more context: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20162015
> redistribution
Of course the real redistribution is the expropriation of the fruits of surplus labor time by those who work to heirs who do not. Redistribution in this context is giving value back to the workers who created that value.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#19Seems to fundamentally confuse social mobility and financial mobility? Simply earning more doesn't move your social class.
Correct. A freelance jurno making $40K in NYC has more social status than a Plumber with his own LLC making half a million a year. The former is closer to the cultural elite and the later is 'blue collar'.
Re: Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
#20Seems to fundamentally confuse social mobility and financial mobility? Simply earning more doesn't move your social class.
It lets you buy ambassadorships and climb via the political patronage system.