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Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

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Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#11

Post by mandmandam »

burglekutt wrote: post #5

Calling it a joyride seems like typical rage bait du jour. Space is a worthy project. Projects need goals to rally around, and this was a goal being accomplished. Who cares who was on the ride? Furthermore, making it all about the richest few people misses the point. More useful to focus on the goal (regain U.S. space capability, and expand human space capability overall) and remember that there are tens of thousands…

Space is a worthy project; the commercialization of space travel is not.

Aren't you tired of billionaires externalizing horrific environmental costs for their own profit?

Isn't asking us to rally behind them because they have " a goal" just a little bit patronizing / condescending / cynical?

Isn't the opportunity cost for such a jaunt just horrific, compared to the "ever-expanding light cones of benefit" we'd get by putting that money into the hands of teachers and janitors?

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#12

Post by throwaway2331 »

mandmandam wrote: post #11
burglekutt wrote: post #5

Calling it a joyride seems like typical rage bait du jour. Space is a worthy project. Projects need goals to rally around, and this was a goal being accomplished. Who cares who was on the ride? Furthermore, making it all about the richest few people misses the point. More useful to focus on the goal (regain U.S. space capability, and expand human space capability overall) and remember that there are tens of thousands…

Space is a worthy project; the commercialization of space travel is not. Aren't you tired of billionaires externalizing horrific environmental costs for their own profit? Isn't asking us to rally behind them because they have " a goal" just a little bit patronizing / condescending / cynical? Isn't the opportunity cost for such a jaunt just horrific, compared to the "ever-expanding light cones of benefit" we'd get by…

We could also simply do-away with level-headed discourse, and go back to the tried-and-true:

"Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan."

To seriously spend any time at all aligning oneself with the workings of reality-disassociated billionaires---much less as anything but a fellow billionaire!---is silly. There really is nothing good that will happen if Jeff Bezos does X, Y, or Z, except parasocial fans will be imbued with energy and celebration.

That's it.

Maddening. I'm of a mind of treating anyone supportive of unaccountable billionaires as enablers, or even missing some basic human faculties of independent thought.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#13

Post by fractallyte »

And yet Bezos was quite clear about Blue Origin's long-term goals (https://www.msnbc.com/stephanie-ruhle/watch/jeff-bezos-and-b...):

"We need to take all heavy industry, all polluting industry, and move it into space. And keep Earth as this beautiful gem of a planet that it is..."

It would "take decades to achieve, but you have to start. And big things start with small steps."

Bezos acknowledges that it won't be achieved in just one (his!) lifetime. That's not selfish at all. Which other 'ultra-wealthy' tech billionaire has such a vision?

And that's where these critics fall flat: they're basically petty and stupid. One reason why someone like Bezos is rich, and they're not: long-term vision. Amazon was a disappointment for shareholders, because it reinvested its profits into growth: https://www.ben-evans.com/benedictevans/2014/9/4/why-amazon-...

Government initiatives are sometimes driven, but mostly hampered by politics (NASA has a very limited budget!) - unlike private ventures. Remember how Tesla started: by wooing wealthy individuals with exclusive vehicles; it was part of the plan!

Moving industry into space is not a new idea, but Blue Origin is taking the first real steps to achieve this.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#14

Post by legitster »

lostlogin wrote: post #8
djmips wrote: post #2

I believe that anyone that travels a lot on airliners will easily surpass this so nothing to be smug about for a lot of people.

It really wouldn’t. I tried a few calculators and flying Auckland to London return (you can’t fly that much further) comes out somewhere around 3000kgs. To get to the amount Bezos uses (maybe 75 tonnes, but likely 250-1000 tonnes), that one hell of a lot of flying. https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/loyaltymodule/form/carbon-em... https://www.icao.int/environmental-protection/CarbonOffset/P...

To get the number they are cutting for Bezos, they are including the manufacturing and shipping and logistics of the flight.

If you add all that in to the carbon cost of a plane's first flight as well, I wouldn't be surprised to find the gap narrower that one might expect.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#15

Post by legitster »

I was surprised to see this report, given the rockets themselves emit literally zero Carbon Dioxide (the byproduct of their engine being NO2). Then I got to the actual meat of it:

>An 11-minute flight emits no fewer than 75 tonnes of carbon per passenger once indirect emissions are taken into account (and more likely, in the 250-1,000 tonnes range).

Ah yes,indirect costs. Sure. These things that don't matter when NASA or SpaceX sends rockets to space (which actually have CO2 generating engines to boot!)

But for the record, the typical US household generates on average of 40-60 of emissions per year. You have to do some phenomenally uncharitable math to make the lifetime claim. It's certainly an... editorial choice to make this an issue about inequality.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#16

Post by colechristensen »

throwaway2331 wrote: post #12
mandmandam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Space is a worthy project; the commercialization of space travel is not. Aren't you tired of billionaires externalizing horrific environmental costs for their own profit? Isn't asking us to rally behind them because they have " a goal" just a little bit patronizing / condescending / cynical? Isn't the opportunity cost for such a jaunt just horrific, compared to the "ever-expanding light cones of benefit" we'd get by…

We could also simply do-away with level-headed discourse, and go back to the tried-and-true: "Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan." To seriously spend any time at all aligning oneself with the workings of reality-disassociated billionaires---much les…

Yes, the distribution of resources available to any particular person is governed by a power law. People complaining about it every time one of these people is mentioned just gets boring.

Everything Jeff Bezos does is going to attract people complaining about it and they would complain about it just the same if the wealth inequality in the world was divided by a thousand. It all reminds me of Obama eating a sandwich with fancy mustard was made into a scandal and I care just as much.

Unless you’re loving your life pretty radically different than most people, you’re “enabling” many billionaires in the very real sense of giving them plenty of your money, regardless of whether or not you complain about them on social media.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#17

Post by RealityVoid »

legitster wrote: post #14
lostlogin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really wouldn’t. I tried a few calculators and flying Auckland to London return (you can’t fly that much further) comes out somewhere around 3000kgs. To get to the amount Bezos uses (maybe 75 tonnes, but likely 250-1000 tonnes), that one hell of a lot of flying. https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/loyaltymodule/form/carbon-em... https://www.icao.int/environmental-protection/CarbonOffset/P...

To get the number they are cutting for Bezos, they are including the manufacturing and shipping and logistics of the flight. If you add all that in to the carbon cost of a plane's first flight as well, I wouldn't be surprised to find the gap narrower that one might expect.

The carbon cost of the plane should be divided by the number of it's many users. So it is overall, minute, compared to if we do the same division for Bezo's craft.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#18

Post by mandmandam »

colechristensen wrote: post #16
throwaway2331 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could also simply do-away with level-headed discourse, and go back to the tried-and-true: "Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan." To seriously spend any time at all aligning oneself with the workings of reality-disassociated billionaires---much les…

Yes, the distribution of resources available to any particular person is governed by a power law. People complaining about it every time one of these people is mentioned just gets boring. Everything Jeff Bezos does is going to attract people complaining about it and they would complain about it just the same if the wealth inequality in the world was divided by a thousand. It all reminds me of Obama eating a sandwich…

... You do realize that all of those excuses are straight out of the enabler playbook, right? Apathy, false equivalence, deflection and projection. Come on bro; do better.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#19

Post by colechristensen »

mandmandam wrote: post #18
colechristensen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the distribution of resources available to any particular person is governed by a power law. People complaining about it every time one of these people is mentioned just gets boring. Everything Jeff Bezos does is going to attract people complaining about it and they would complain about it just the same if the wealth inequality in the world was divided by a thousand. It all reminds me of Obama eating a sandwich…

... You do realize that all of those excuses are straight out of the enabler playbook, right? Apathy, false equivalence, deflection and projection. Come on bro; do better.

I really don’t, am not your “bro”, and don’t care to engage with pointless moral posturing. If you have a point, make it.

Re: Jeff Bezos’ Space Joyride Emitted a Lifetime’s Worth of Carbon Pollution

#20

Post by neither_color »

throwaway2331 wrote: post #12
mandmandam wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Space is a worthy project; the commercialization of space travel is not. Aren't you tired of billionaires externalizing horrific environmental costs for their own profit? Isn't asking us to rally behind them because they have " a goal" just a little bit patronizing / condescending / cynical? Isn't the opportunity cost for such a jaunt just horrific, compared to the "ever-expanding light cones of benefit" we'd get by…

We could also simply do-away with level-headed discourse, and go back to the tried-and-true: "Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan." To seriously spend any time at all aligning oneself with the workings of reality-disassociated billionaires---much les…

"Billionaires are not your friends. They don't know you, they don't care about you, and they can do nothing for you -- except allow you to live vicariously through their avarice, as if you're some sportsfan."

While this is true, it's also true of anyone I don't personally know. They can't care about me. Dunbar's number.

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