Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage • Hacker News Board

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#11

Post by busterarm » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #8

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #7

Condos and apartment buildings are going to be a significant barrier to widespread ev adoption (esp in metro areas where these are more common). It's 2021, my condo hoa has no plans (even 'someday') to add ev chargers. They don't even have the electrical infrastructure in the garage to allow owners to install chargers at their own expense.

This is why regulations are sometimes the sole feasible option.

You don't want regulation forcing these things into your properties without also some way of containing their fires and their fumes (which are highly toxic).

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#12

Post by busterarm » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

hbrav wrote: post #9

I'm confused about the argument regarding the sprinkler system. I can understand water sprinkler being a dangerous combination with a battery fire. But for a gasoline powered car, isn't a fire likely to be a flammable liquid fire, for which water sprinklers are also a dangerous choice?

Small amounts of water can spread gas fires but large amounts of water smothers and deprives it of the oxygen needed to react & burn.

It's also really hard to get liquid gas on its own to ignite -- it's the vapor that you have to worry about. This is why gas is atomized and combined with oxygen and compressed to burn in your vehicle.

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#13

Post by wing-_-nuts » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #11

mint2 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why regulations are sometimes the sole feasible option.

You don't want regulation forcing these things into your properties without also some way of containing their fires and their fumes (which are highly toxic).

Why are you more concerned about EV fires when gas fires have been a thing for the past century? We had a parked car go up in flames at work and nobody was calling for the company to ban ice cars.

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#14

Post by busterarm » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

Arrath wrote: post #3

tssva wrote: post #2

I'm not saying I agree with the condo association but I am confused by the counterpoint the article author tries to make. Their response is regarding the odds of an EV catching fire vs the odds of a ICE catching fire. They even state that if the odds of an ICE catching fire is equal or greater than an EV than ICE's should also be banned. But the associations argument against EVs in the garage isn't based mainly aroun…

One (redundant and costly) solution might be for building code to require two side-by-side sprinkler systems for garages, one that sprays water and another that sprays chemical fire retardants suitable to fighting battery fires and the like.

You need not only chemical fire retardants but a fume extraction system. Lithium battery fires are extremely toxic.

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#15

Post by NikolaeVarius » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #14

Arrath wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One (redundant and costly) solution might be for building code to require two side-by-side sprinkler systems for garages, one that sprays water and another that sprays chemical fire retardants suitable to fighting battery fires and the like.

You need not only chemical fire retardants but a fume extraction system. Lithium battery fires are extremely toxic.

And for some reason it wasnt needed for a ICE car fire?

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#16

Post by busterarm » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

busterarm wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't want regulation forcing these things into your properties without also some way of containing their fires and their fumes (which are highly toxic).

Why are you more concerned about EV fires when gas fires have been a thing for the past century? We had a parked car go up in flames at work and nobody was calling for the company to ban ice cars.

Parked ICE cars _rarely_ catch fire just sitting parked. When they do it's usually electrical system issues that started a larger fire (I'm looking at you, VW, Audi). Battery fires commonly occur while at rest. More importantly, they can't be put out (and are accelerated) by common indoor sprinkler systems and the toxic fumes will keep you from getting close enough to use a Class D extinguisher anyway. Much unlike ICE cars.

Additionally, lithium batteries burn at 1000+ degrees vs gas fires which burn at hundreds and batteries tend to EXPLODE, whereas gas just burns unless the fire starts from inside the pressurized tank (which is virtually impossible).

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#17

Post by nielsbot » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

Wonder if EVs could come with built-in extinguishers... maybe just for the battery compartment. Would CO2 work?

Probably not remotely practical.

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#18

Post by busterarm » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #15

busterarm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need not only chemical fire retardants but a fume extraction system. Lithium battery fires are extremely toxic.

And for some reason it wasnt needed for a ICE car fire?

Sure a burning car isn't good for you, but lithium metal is famously toxic and will cause severe GI & neurological problems and is potentially fatal.

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#19

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #16

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you more concerned about EV fires when gas fires have been a thing for the past century? We had a parked car go up in flames at work and nobody was calling for the company to ban ice cars.

Parked ICE cars _rarely_ catch fire just sitting parked. When they do it's usually electrical system issues that started a larger fire (I'm looking at you, VW, Audi). Battery fires commonly occur while at rest. More importantly, they can't be put out (and are accelerated) by common indoor sprinkler systems and the toxic fumes will keep you from getting close enough to use a Class D extinguisher anyway. Much unlike IC…

[deleted]

Re: Condo Association Bans Owners from Parking EVs in the Garage

#20

Post by teeray » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

nielsbot wrote: post #17

Wonder if EVs could come with built-in extinguishers... maybe just for the battery compartment. Would CO2 work? Probably not remotely practical.

With lithium battery fires, you need to both extinguish the fire and cool the battery. They’re like those trick birthday candles. Water is usually best at both jobs.

What would be better is a charger hooked up to a standpipe with orifices in the car to extinguish and cool the batteries.