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Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

businessweek.com

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Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#11

Post by rudiger »

bena wrote: post #5
delinka wrote: post #4

I still don't understand why the U.S. government should care. If they were being circulated as currency, it would make sense. But the metal in the coins is worth many many times their face value. It'd be ludicrous for a holder of a double eagle coin to spend it as $20.

Basically, all Double Eagles not in the government's possession are stolen property.

Not all of them. A 1933 Double Eagle coin was legally auctioned, and an additional $20 was needed to “monetize” the face value of the coin so it would become legal currency.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#12

Post by maaku »

rudiger wrote: post #10
sneak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cops and principle thing. It's "because I said so" authoritarianism of the highest order. Rationally, they shouldn't care at all, but available evidence strongly suggests that the business of drafting, passing, and enforcing laws has very little to do with rationality.

They care because the coins were never issued. They were stolen. Even when a 1933 Double Eagle coin was legally auctioned, an additional $20 was needed to “monetize” the face value of the coin so it would become legal currency.

If you make it to page 5, there's a note that these coins might have been issued by the Mint, officially but not legally. There's a brief window of time after FDR's gold recall order that tellers at the Mint were trading gold coins for the recalled bullion. It is entirely conceivable that some 1933 double eagles might have been issued as change.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#13

Post by delinka »

rudiger wrote: post #10
sneak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cops and principle thing. It's "because I said so" authoritarianism of the highest order. Rationally, they shouldn't care at all, but available evidence strongly suggests that the business of drafting, passing, and enforcing laws has very little to do with rationality.

They care because the coins were never issued. They were stolen. Even when a 1933 Double Eagle coin was legally auctioned, an additional $20 was needed to “monetize” the face value of the coin so it would become legal currency.

If it's true that they were stolen, then we're beyond the statute of limitations for obtaining criminal justice. Now we're back to the feds attempting to recover the property of Uncle Sam and it's a pittance of gold. No longer worth the effort.

Edit: I think I fat fingered the wrong reply link. It's not worth it to move the comment.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#14

Post by larrik »

rudiger wrote: post #11
bena wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, all Double Eagles not in the government's possession are stolen property.

Not all of them. A 1933 Double Eagle coin was legally auctioned, and an additional $20 was needed to “monetize” the face value of the coin so it would become legal currency.

I believe the government's position is that one coin was also stolen property, which they then dealt with in a special way, given the circumstances.

More importantly, the government believes the 10 coins the article is really about were stolen by the family who currently is trying to get them back. A huge difference to the original case of the single coin.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#15

Post by larrik »

rudiger wrote: post #9

Is there any qualitative difference (eg. a unique design beyond the "1933" year) between the 1933 Double Eagle coin and the coins from previous years? Obviously, an interesting story makes these worth so much more.

You mean like the fact that the 1933 coins were never issued?

I think "this coin shouldn't exist" qualifies as a bit more than "an interesting story."

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#16

Post by ck2 »

How much taxpayer money has been wasted over the past 50+ years over this nonsense. Flights, security, agent hours, overtime, pensions, etc. just to pursue this nonsense.

Anyone could think of a dozen ways the money could have been better spent, but I guess every level of cops need their own little agenda to abuse to feel important.

I say if anyone happens to have one, let them sell it and instead charge a 40% tax rate on the selling price.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#17

Post by pmiller2 »

rudiger wrote: post #9

Is there any qualitative difference (eg. a unique design beyond the "1933" year) between the 1933 Double Eagle coin and the coins from previous years? Obviously, an interesting story makes these worth so much more.

No. They are exactly the same design as coins minted 1908-1932 (1907 was a special case, having two different designs, only one of which continued on).

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#18

Post by kwantam »

ck2 wrote: post #16

How much taxpayer money has been wasted over the past 50+ years over this nonsense. Flights, security, agent hours, overtime, pensions, etc. just to pursue this nonsense. Anyone could think of a dozen ways the money could have been better spent, but I guess every level of cops need their own little agenda to abuse to feel important. I say if anyone happens to have one, let them sell it and instead charge a 40% tax ra…

Don't you understand, if the government doesn't spend huge sums recovering these coins our currency will be devalued.

I mean, devalued more. Because, you know, quantitative easing, and all that.

More seriously: I want to know how the hell you find a jury who will actually support the government stealing heirlooms from an 82-year-old woman's safety deposit box.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#19

Post by jahmed »

delinka wrote: post #13
rudiger wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They care because the coins were never issued. They were stolen. Even when a 1933 Double Eagle coin was legally auctioned, an additional $20 was needed to “monetize” the face value of the coin so it would become legal currency.

If it's true that they were stolen, then we're beyond the statute of limitations for obtaining criminal justice. Now we're back to the feds attempting to recover the property of Uncle Sam and it's a pittance of gold. No longer worth the effort. Edit: I think I fat fingered the wrong reply link. It's not worth it to move the comment.

IANAL but I would assume the Government's argument would be that the crime is ongoing and that after becoming aware of the coins they made efforts to recover the property.

It is a pittance of gold but thats not the point. The Mint believes these coins were misappropriated and it's their duty to secure the money supply. If I were the Government I would offer $20 per coin, as thats the face value of the coins. Although that might not be possible if that technically monetizes them into legal tender.

Re: Gold Coins: The Mystery of the Double Eagle

#20

Post by sneak »

jahmed wrote: post #19
delinka wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's true that they were stolen, then we're beyond the statute of limitations for obtaining criminal justice. Now we're back to the feds attempting to recover the property of Uncle Sam and it's a pittance of gold. No longer worth the effort. Edit: I think I fat fingered the wrong reply link. It's not worth it to move the comment.

IANAL but I would assume the Government's argument would be that the crime is ongoing and that after becoming aware of the coins they made efforts to recover the property. It is a pittance of gold but thats not the point. The Mint believes these coins were misappropriated and it's their duty to secure the money supply. If I were the Government I would offer $20 per coin, as thats the face value of the coins. Although…

There is no crime here, even if the coins were originally stolen. Use your head, exactly as the government is not doing.
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