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Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

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Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#11

Post by pfdietz »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7
photochemsyn wrote: post #6

Full text report: http://arxiv-export-lb.library.cornell.edu/pdf/2106.04942v1 The summary in the paper is perhaps clearer than the article about it: > "Our study has significant implications for the fundamental understanding of defect tolerance in these materials and the design of halide perovskite solar cells, in particular for tandem cells. Using a novel suite of multimodal microscopy techniques, we unveil the rema…

I know nothing about the manufacturing cost nor the lifespan of these materials, but I'm curious if it would be viable to have infrastructure for periodically replacing and recycling the panels. I.e., have regional facilities for receiving old panels, re-smelting the lead and other materials, and perhaps locally manufacture the replacements.

Materials cost should be significantly lower than Si or CdTe. The active layer of semiconductor is just 0.3-0.4 microns thick.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/features/the-power-of-perovsk...

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#12

Post by pfdietz »

boringg wrote: post #3

I mean cheaper technology at the same efficiency of todays solar cells but available in the next decade. Interesting but not changing the game. Silicon Solar will keep downward pressure over that time anyways so it will need to get significantly better. Lots of other options for viability im sure.

This technology will likely be rolled out as tandem cells with conventional Si cells underneath. So any improvements to Si cells will carry over to these, and there will always be an efficiency bump vs. just Si.

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#13

Post by alteriority »

ArtWomb wrote: post #2

>>> Combining a series of new microscopy techniques, the group present a complete picture of the nanoscale chemical, structural and optoelectronic landscape of these materials It's not even relevant to call it "microscopy" anymore, we require a new term. It's a complete thin film atlas of all interacting forces of nature. Better data for the models, means higher fidelity simulations. The question is can AI predict ne…

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you're talking about, but I read something a while back about using AI to predict if certain metallic glass alloys will have useful properties: https://phys.org/news/2018-04-artificial-intelligence-discov...

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#14

Post by boringg »

pfdietz wrote: post #12
boringg wrote: post #3

I mean cheaper technology at the same efficiency of todays solar cells but available in the next decade. Interesting but not changing the game. Silicon Solar will keep downward pressure over that time anyways so it will need to get significantly better. Lots of other options for viability im sure.

This technology will likely be rolled out as tandem cells with conventional Si cells underneath. So any improvements to Si cells will carry over to these, and there will always be an efficiency bump vs. just Si.

Could be - it's a decade away, lots can change. Hopeful for improvements but we've needed all this stuff like 2 decades ago.

Better late then never I guess.

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#15

Post by moffkalast »

14 wrote: post #9
yxhuvud wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lead salts also tend to be a lot more toxic than silicon. Putting that in something as plentiful and exposed as solar panels sounds like a big potential issue.

I think it would be fairly trivial to recoup the lead. Add a $500 deposits you get back when they are returned end of life cycle. Manufacturers should eat that initial cost with contract to return to them directly at end of life or they charge you the $500 as per contract if you fail to return them. If that doesn’t scale financially then I guess it’s a non starter. But something as big as a panel should be easy enoug…

This isn't a glass bottle you return next week, if you buy the panels they'll last you 30 or 40 years. At that point it's completely likely that the company will no longer exist when you go back for your deposit lmao.

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#16

Post by Kalimoto »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7
photochemsyn wrote: post #6

Full text report: http://arxiv-export-lb.library.cornell.edu/pdf/2106.04942v1 The summary in the paper is perhaps clearer than the article about it: > "Our study has significant implications for the fundamental understanding of defect tolerance in these materials and the design of halide perovskite solar cells, in particular for tandem cells. Using a novel suite of multimodal microscopy techniques, we unveil the rema…

I know nothing about the manufacturing cost nor the lifespan of these materials, but I'm curious if it would be viable to have infrastructure for periodically replacing and recycling the panels. I.e., have regional facilities for receiving old panels, re-smelting the lead and other materials, and perhaps locally manufacture the replacements.

There will be no advantage of doing this locally.

There lifetime is too long to have enough locally and if we have 100% renewable, transport will be no ecological issue anymore.

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#17

Post by photochemsyn »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #7
photochemsyn wrote: post #6

Full text report: http://arxiv-export-lb.library.cornell.edu/pdf/2106.04942v1 The summary in the paper is perhaps clearer than the article about it: > "Our study has significant implications for the fundamental understanding of defect tolerance in these materials and the design of halide perovskite solar cells, in particular for tandem cells. Using a novel suite of multimodal microscopy techniques, we unveil the rema…

I know nothing about the manufacturing cost nor the lifespan of these materials, but I'm curious if it would be viable to have infrastructure for periodically replacing and recycling the panels. I.e., have regional facilities for receiving old panels, re-smelting the lead and other materials, and perhaps locally manufacture the replacements.

This approach might work in an industrial setting for photo-electrochemical applications but is highly unlikely for residential or commercial power generation. mono-Si panels last for decades with no need for maintenance other than regular surface cleaning and no lead issues.

However you could, in an industrial setting, do something like this:

"Integration of a Hydrogenase in a Lead Halide Perovskite Photoelectrode for Tandem Solar Water Splitting 2020"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32010793/

Here you could use a catalyst regeneration strategy where you basically have a little production line onsite and as each unit wears out you just pop in a new one and send the old one to be regenerated, that's more plausible.

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#18

Post by myself248 »

moffkalast wrote: post #15
14 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would be fairly trivial to recoup the lead. Add a $500 deposits you get back when they are returned end of life cycle. Manufacturers should eat that initial cost with contract to return to them directly at end of life or they charge you the $500 as per contract if you fail to return them. If that doesn’t scale financially then I guess it’s a non starter. But something as big as a panel should be easy enoug…

This isn't a glass bottle you return next week, if you buy the panels they'll last you 30 or 40 years. At that point it's completely likely that the company will no longer exist when you go back for your deposit lmao.

It's almost like we could create organizations that last longer than companies, and have the citizens' best interests at heart, to administer a deposit program like that. Perhaps these organizations could also govern other aspects of society instead of leaving those to corporations as well. Could we call them govern-ments?

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#19

Post by baggy_trough »

myself248 wrote: post #18
moffkalast wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a glass bottle you return next week, if you buy the panels they'll last you 30 or 40 years. At that point it's completely likely that the company will no longer exist when you go back for your deposit lmao.

It's almost like we could create organizations that last longer than companies, and have the citizens' best interests at heart, to administer a deposit program like that. Perhaps these organizations could also govern other aspects of society instead of leaving those to corporations as well. Could we call them govern-ments?

"have the citizens' best interests at heart" - citation needed

Re: Mystery of high-performing solar cell materials revealed

#20

Post by moffkalast »

myself248 wrote: post #18
moffkalast wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a glass bottle you return next week, if you buy the panels they'll last you 30 or 40 years. At that point it's completely likely that the company will no longer exist when you go back for your deposit lmao.

It's almost like we could create organizations that last longer than companies, and have the citizens' best interests at heart, to administer a deposit program like that. Perhaps these organizations could also govern other aspects of society instead of leaving those to corporations as well. Could we call them govern-ments?

Organizations that will be shut down the next time the opposing political party comes into power? Don't make me laugh.
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