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Is there such a thing as good taste?

paulgraham.com

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Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#11

Post by forgetfulness »

lr4444lr wrote: post #2

I don't get into these kinds of discussions with people anymore, because they're not socially palatable. I try to stay open minded too about perspectives that are not mine, and try to be objective about my own biases. But I can't shake the feeling that much as someone might validly prefer some abstract dot on a white canvas to the Sistine Chapel ceiling, who would more likely impress the fans of the other, that artis…

Now I'm no art fancy man like the ones you're describing, but I'm fairly certain that people who like the dot also like the Sistine Chapel, it's just that the Sistine Chapel has been... _done_, and your reproduction of the Sistine Chapel will be enjoyable but forgettable because it will never be as good or as important as the real one.

So, people talk about works that are memorable. Like that one abstract dot of historical interest, or the original paintings from the old masters that perfected the techniques that artists emulate.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#12

Post by andrewvc »

This ignores the fact that Leonardo and Bellini went from places of social relevance and interest to being primarily of historical interest. No one says “I really could go for some Bellini about now”.

“What do people enjoy, and why” is a much more interesting question than “what should they like, and why it’s only a coincidence that aligns with my personal preferences”.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#13

Post by forgetfulness »

UncleMeat wrote: post #10
lr4444lr wrote: post #2

I don't get into these kinds of discussions with people anymore, because they're not socially palatable. I try to stay open minded too about perspectives that are not mine, and try to be objective about my own biases. But I can't shake the feeling that much as someone might validly prefer some abstract dot on a white canvas to the Sistine Chapel ceiling, who would more likely impress the fans of the other, that artis…

I do always find it funny that billionaires finally finally get on board with the "labor is what makes something valuable" idea when comparing abstract art and other art.

Hackers did have things in common with painters after all, or at least the ones that self promote have that in common.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#14

Post by ppod »

lr4444lr wrote: post #2

I don't get into these kinds of discussions with people anymore, because they're not socially palatable. I try to stay open minded too about perspectives that are not mine, and try to be objective about my own biases. But I can't shake the feeling that much as someone might validly prefer some abstract dot on a white canvas to the Sistine Chapel ceiling, who would more likely impress the fans of the other, that artis…

The whole point of conceptual art is that reproduction of figurative art is trivial now, so we move up a level. It's easy to reproduce the dot, but it's the conceptual move to dotness that's non-trivial. These ideas are 60 years old (Walter Benjamin) and you're doing a bit of a Two Cultures in reverse by being this simplistic about it.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#15

Post by abernard1 »

For once I agree with Paul Graham.

I expect his post to be surprisingly unpopular with this crowd, as it sleights a core tenet of our postmodern age. Namely, he's arguing for a form of objective truth and of "the good". A statistical derivation of this good for sure (and qualitative as opposed to a Benthamist, quantitative utilitarianism), but a good nonetheless.

But I applaud PG for taking this stance. Truth is not like your favorite flavor of ice cream. Software isn't either, and certain software either works or doesn't. Human culture and beliefs—our ideological software—has objectively superior results depending upon what your measuring stick is. Some beliefs are objectively better.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#16

Post by j7ake »

Is "good taste" a universal property or is it specific to different cultures?

Is there art that is overwhelming appreciated by people in one culture, but does not resonate at all with another culture?

If that is the case, to what extend does good taste transcend cultural barriers?

Perhaps the right model to think is that art interacts with the ideas and culture of a people. Good art exposes these ideas and cultures to the surface for humans to appreciate.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#18

Post by pengstrom »

lr4444lr wrote: post #2

I don't get into these kinds of discussions with people anymore, because they're not socially palatable. I try to stay open minded too about perspectives that are not mine, and try to be objective about my own biases. But I can't shake the feeling that much as someone might validly prefer some abstract dot on a white canvas to the Sistine Chapel ceiling, who would more likely impress the fans of the other, that artis…

The context of art extends beyond the artifact. I image both PhDs would have trouble contributing meaningful novel work.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#19

Post by WithinReason »

If there's no such thing as good taste, then there's no such thing as good art.

Unless good art is defined as one that appeals to more people's taste.

I agree with the premise that there is such a thing as good taste, but this is not the knockdown argument it's presented to be.

Re: Is there such a thing as good taste?

#20

Post by fsloth »

joris_w wrote: post #6
jph wrote: post #3

Yes there's good taste. As one example that I've experienced: walk into the Pixar building in Emeryville and it feels amazing, and different, and better. And it turns out that Steve Jobs created it. https://www.buzzfeed.com/adambvary/inside-steve-jobs-mindblo...

That's your taste, which might be good taste, but how do we decide on that?

"how do we decide on that?" That's the point. There is no current calculus to compute this but I find Paul's argument pretty convincing still.
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