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Safari Ruined My Tuesday

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Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#11

Post by blondin »

i sympathize with the author.

safari and browsers aside, there is something bigger going on. there is a massive disconnect between applications users and makers nowadays. i have started to think that they a) don't care b) have misaligned priorities c) have weird notions of "acceptable" errors.

i have a long list of applications that break every time there is an update. even UX updates introduce bugs nowadays. i have started to dread updates and upgrades.

we have lost all notion of stability.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#12

Post by Mikeb85 »

blondin wrote: post #11

i sympathize with the author. safari and browsers aside, there is something bigger going on. there is a massive disconnect between applications users and makers nowadays. i have started to think that they a) don't care b) have misaligned priorities c) have weird notions of "acceptable" errors. i have a long list of applications that break every time there is an update. even UX updates introduce bugs nowadays. i have…

Why should any developer care about supporting Safari? Chrome and Firefox support most (all?) of the current web standards. Every site I use works on both. I don't hear any concerns about Brave, Edge or Opera either. How is it that Safari is the only broken browser these days?

As for 'acceptable' errors, I find software to be pretty reliable these days. I remember way more things being messed up back in the day...

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#13

Post by zaptrem »

reaperducer wrote: post #10
slivanes wrote: post #6

I'm trying to figure out which browser is the biggest cancer for the WWW. On the one hand, you have Safari whom has a parent company that isn't interested in making it have useful feature parity with the others because it'll then allow escape from their gravy train app store (fully working PWA's, non-compete with rendering engines in iOS). Their lack of keeping up is starting to look a bit like IE6 days. And on the o…

I think Safari, flaws and all, is pretty much the only browser that has any weight against Chrome. Tell your manager that you want the web site to support Firefox or Brave or something else, and they'll tell you it's a waste of time. Tell them that the web site won't work on their MacBook, and it's a four-alarm fire. In a lot of ways, I wish Safari would deviate even more from Google's "standards" just so that maybe…

Isn't Brave essentially a Chromium skin?

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#14

Post by taf2 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12
blondin wrote: post #11

i sympathize with the author. safari and browsers aside, there is something bigger going on. there is a massive disconnect between applications users and makers nowadays. i have started to think that they a) don't care b) have misaligned priorities c) have weird notions of "acceptable" errors. i have a long list of applications that break every time there is an update. even UX updates introduce bugs nowadays. i have…

Why should any developer care about supporting Safari? Chrome and Firefox support most (all?) of the current web standards. Every site I use works on both. I don't hear any concerns about Brave, Edge or Opera either. How is it that Safari is the only broken browser these days? As for 'acceptable' errors, I find software to be pretty reliable these days. I remember way more things being messed up back in the day...

Mobile safari… since it’s the only engine on iOS … that ends up being a good chunk of users depending on your user base probably many try to use your website on an iPhone … if blink engine was allowed by apple on iOS - safari would die tomorrow

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#15

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

syspec wrote: post #8

I encounter random CSS bugs all the time in Chrome, it's just trendy to say Safari is behind the times. Google wants everything to be done in the browser, their browser, so they can track everything without cookies to sell ads

It's really not just "trendy". Safari is the bane of my existence. On Big Sur, our WebGL app was occassionally sporadically rendering floating objects and black primitives into infinity on our CEOs laptop.

On the plus side, our competitor's product didn't work at all. So I guess it's not all bad.

In this case, Catalina had worked fine, and upgrading to Monterey fixed the issue. So props to Apple for fixing the problem. However, at the same time, our app worked flawlessly in both Firefox and Chrome running on the same hardware. Granted, it's not as simple as pointing the finger at Safari. The issue was a combination of Safari's behaviour paired with less than perfect graphics drivers.

Although, this is just one example. Mobile Safari not supporting full screen APIs on iPhone, but supporting them on iPad is just, well, weird. Is that a conscious effort to cripple the web on iPhone, or could they just not figure out the UX?

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#16

Post by krono »

reaperducer wrote: post #10
slivanes wrote: post #6

I'm trying to figure out which browser is the biggest cancer for the WWW. On the one hand, you have Safari whom has a parent company that isn't interested in making it have useful feature parity with the others because it'll then allow escape from their gravy train app store (fully working PWA's, non-compete with rendering engines in iOS). Their lack of keeping up is starting to look a bit like IE6 days. And on the o…

I think Safari, flaws and all, is pretty much the only browser that has any weight against Chrome. Tell your manager that you want the web site to support Firefox or Brave or something else, and they'll tell you it's a waste of time. Tell them that the web site won't work on their MacBook, and it's a four-alarm fire. In a lot of ways, I wish Safari would deviate even more from Google's "standards" just so that maybe…

Microsoft Edge is gaining some serious ground and is closing in on Safari [0]. Their aggressive conversion tactics seem to be paying off.

The problem with Safari is that they either simply haven't, and, in some cases, even flat out refuse to implement certain standards that they themselves have had a hand in establishing. And then most of what is available comes half-arsed, undocumented, and is not supported/iterated upon.

[0] https://gs.statcounter.com/browser-market-share/desktop/worl...

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#17

Post by Mikeb85 »

taf2 wrote: post #14
Mikeb85 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should any developer care about supporting Safari? Chrome and Firefox support most (all?) of the current web standards. Every site I use works on both. I don't hear any concerns about Brave, Edge or Opera either. How is it that Safari is the only broken browser these days? As for 'acceptable' errors, I find software to be pretty reliable these days. I remember way more things being messed up back in the day...

Mobile safari… since it’s the only engine on iOS … that ends up being a good chunk of users depending on your user base probably many try to use your website on an iPhone … if blink engine was allowed by apple on iOS - safari would die tomorrow

And if enough developers simply ignored Safari then maybe it would force Apple to either simply adhere to web standards or allow competing browser engines... Catering to them signals that their shitty behaviour is condoned.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#18

Post by chrismorgan »

reaperducer wrote: post #9
chrismorgan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most CSS bugs just make things a bit uglier, rather than completely breaking your entire site.

You might be surprised how often a CSS bug will break an entire site. I've seen it many times in my decades.

Oh, it can definitely happen. In earlier drafts of the current iteration of my website, I used `mix-blend-mode: multiply` liberally (most significantly for the left sidebar), and discovered that in Chromium under Windows anything you used it on would stop rendering after a few thousand pixels (4096 or 8192 or something, my memory’s fuzzy and I don’t have the bug IDs handy), meaning that most of some of my articles were just missing. And that wasn’t even the only debilitating bug I found in Chromium in the process. So I regretfully removed some of the clevernesses that did produce better results in Firefox, because I found Chromium so terribly buggy in some of the slightly-newer stuff. (My general experience and impression is that Chromium ships fast with lots of bugs that tend to linger, and Firefox ships more slowly with decidedly fewer bugs.)

But still, most CSS bugs aren’t so severe.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#19

Post by vimy »

krono wrote: post #16
reaperducer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Safari, flaws and all, is pretty much the only browser that has any weight against Chrome. Tell your manager that you want the web site to support Firefox or Brave or something else, and they'll tell you it's a waste of time. Tell them that the web site won't work on their MacBook, and it's a four-alarm fire. In a lot of ways, I wish Safari would deviate even more from Google's "standards" just so that maybe…

Microsoft Edge is gaining some serious ground and is closing in on Safari [0]. Their aggressive conversion tactics seem to be paying off. The problem with Safari is that they either simply haven't, and, in some cases, even flat out refuse to implement certain standards that they themselves have had a hand in establishing. And then most of what is available comes half-arsed, undocumented, and is not supported/iterated…

iPad Safari should count as desktop Safari in those statistics. They are basically the same since last year.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#20

Post by [deleted] »

slivanes wrote: post #6

I'm trying to figure out which browser is the biggest cancer for the WWW. On the one hand, you have Safari whom has a parent company that isn't interested in making it have useful feature parity with the others because it'll then allow escape from their gravy train app store (fully working PWA's, non-compete with rendering engines in iOS). Their lack of keeping up is starting to look a bit like IE6 days. And on the o…

[deleted]
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