Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany • Hacker News Board

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#11

Post by chronogram » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:00 AM UTC

heisig wrote: post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

The German copyright law doesn't seem unnecessarily vague, simply life+70 years, which is why there are now two authors blocked (3 at the time of the link). If you have a problem with Germany's life+70 years then you shouldn't be upset with the lawyers, you should be upset with your government to change your government's copyright laws to match whatever the US does.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#12

Post by Vespasian » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:00 AM UTC

tpush wrote: post #6

heisig wrote: post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

> If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain […] ‘Public domain’ doesn’t exist in Germany.

70 years after the last authors death it becomes public domain.

You cannot give up all rights voluntarily.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#13

Post by willvarfar » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

Was there any general awareness in Germany the PG was blocked, and if so, did activism arise?

Or did PG block, and mainstream Germany not notice? Or did Germans just shrug and use proxies?

Personally I am a PG user but I’m not in Germany. And I’ve read several PG books. But I have also noticed that the download count for many of them is really really low, which is basically saying that PG doesn’t have a lot or actual users :(

Let’s fix this! Everyone reading this post should go download a nice book from PG and actually read it! ;)

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#14

Post by yorwba » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:04 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #7

What's the status of works by Heinrich Mann, who seems to have died in 1950? Shouldn't those have entered the public domain in Germany on Jan 1, 2021? If so, will PG be making those works available to German users?

The message displayed when you try to access a blocked work https://block.pglaf.org/germany.shtml states:

The block applies to seven books by author Thomas Mann (until January 1, 2026) and five books by author Alfred Döblin (until January 1, 2028). No other Project Gutenberg eBooks, by any author, are blocked in Germany.

I can confirm that works by Heinrich Mann are accessible.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#15

Post by weinzierl » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:11 AM UTC

willvarfar wrote: post #13

Was there any general awareness in Germany the PG was blocked, and if so, did activism arise? Or did PG block, and mainstream Germany not notice? Or did Germans just shrug and use proxies? Personally I am a PG user but I’m not in Germany. And I’ve read several PG books. But I have also noticed that the download count for many of them is really really low, which is basically saying that PG doesn’t have a lot or actual…

Yes, I was annoyed by it being blocked here.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#16

Post by zmix » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

heisig wrote: post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

In Germany, the concept of "Public Domain" does not exist. (EDIT: It may exist 70 years after the authors death). IANAL.

Besides that, even if it would, the books would not have been in the Public Domain. From the announcement:

> In Germany, they are copyrighted based on "life +70 years" of copyright protection (so, copyright will expire after 2020, 2025 and 2027, respectively).

From a legal and business perspective, neither German legislation nor the Fischer Verlag are at fault here. It's just the way it is (in Germany): Creators hold their intellectual property for life and can make sure, their heir profits from the work of the (grand)parents, as well (+70 years after death of copyright holder).

And while I understand, that Project Gutenberg has limited resources and may have no desire to do the extra work of blocking works on a case by case basis, it would not have been difficult. Instead, they have chosen to collectively punish all people from Germany, which resulted us to be seven years without access, at least as long we did not utilize a VPN.

I am very happy, that this has been resolved now. All the legal hassle has cost (non-profit) money and was worthless, because the solution is the same now, they could have implemented seven years ago.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#17

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:12 AM UTC

tpush wrote: post #6

heisig wrote: post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

> If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain […] ‘Public domain’ doesn’t exist in Germany.

[deleted]

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#18

Post by zmix » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:14 AM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #15

willvarfar wrote: post #13

Was there any general awareness in Germany the PG was blocked, and if so, did activism arise? Or did PG block, and mainstream Germany not notice? Or did Germans just shrug and use proxies? Personally I am a PG user but I’m not in Germany. And I’ve read several PG books. But I have also noticed that the download count for many of them is really really low, which is basically saying that PG doesn’t have a lot or actual…

Yes, I was annoyed by it being blocked here.

LOL, same here! But, AFAIK, nothing more happened, except us being extremely annoyed.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#19

Post by detaro » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:15 AM UTC

tpush wrote: post #6

heisig wrote: post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

> If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain […] ‘Public domain’ doesn’t exist in Germany.

For the purposes of the discussion here, "Gemeinfreiheit" is basically the same thing.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#20

Post by hnbad » Thu, Oct 28, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

detaro wrote: post #19

tpush wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain […] ‘Public domain’ doesn’t exist in Germany.

For the purposes of the discussion here, "Gemeinfreiheit" is basically the same thing.

An important caveat is that in Germany (and Austria, I think?) you can't legally dedicate a work to the public domain, but you can surrender most of your legal rights to a work. This is why international public domain dedications often include a fallback public license.