Meanwhile, in the UK: https://www.hcsolicitors.co.uk/news/giving-the-police-your-p...
If a judge authorises a notice, under RIPA, you can be served a 2 year sentence for failing to disclose your phone's passcode.
Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
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Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#12Claim the EFF, but headline statement is not an assertion that has held up in court.
So far it has held up in the court of appeals, but there's another hearing upcoming. Note that a defendant is in a much stronger position if they have maintained complete silence even before the password is requested - you can't just clam up halfway through a conversation.
> you can't just clam up halfway through a conversation
Why?
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#13But wait, does this say that another court order can compel you to unlock it anyways? That doesn't seem logical at all.
Right to remain silent vs. a court order to provide access to evidence.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#14But wait, does this say that another court order can compel you to unlock it anyways? That doesn't seem logical at all.
The answer to that is unknown.
The most recent case to make its way up to SCOTUS got declined. https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/andrews-v-new-je...
There are disagreements at the lower courts on the matter.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#15Meanwhile, in the UK: https://www.hcsolicitors.co.uk/news/giving-the-police-your-p... If a judge authorises a notice, under RIPA, you can be served a 2 year sentence for failing to disclose your phone's passcode.
I think the difference is from where the request comes - from the police during interrogation, or from the judge during trial.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#16Claim the EFF, but headline statement is not an assertion that has held up in court.
So far it has held up in the court of appeals, but there's another hearing upcoming. Note that a defendant is in a much stronger position if they have maintained complete silence even before the password is requested - you can't just clam up halfway through a conversation.
You most certainly can clam up halfway through a conversation, and the fact that you did cannot be used against you in a criminal trial. It's a common (but not mandatory) part of the Miranda warning that a person being questioned in custody can stop answering questions at any time.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
So far it has held up in the court of appeals, but there's another hearing upcoming. Note that a defendant is in a much stronger position if they have maintained complete silence even before the password is requested - you can't just clam up halfway through a conversation.
> you can't just clam up halfway through a conversation Why?
I’m not the person you’re replying to but I think they’re getting at the state/a jury’s ability to draw inferences from when and in response to which question you decided to invoke your fifth amendment right to remain silent.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#18Meanwhile, in the UK: https://www.hcsolicitors.co.uk/news/giving-the-police-your-p... If a judge authorises a notice, under RIPA, you can be served a 2 year sentence for failing to disclose your phone's passcode.
I think the difference is from where the request comes - from the police during interrogation, or from the judge during trial.
The difference is also that the UK doesn't have a Fifth Amendment, and their right to remain silent is subtly but importantly different.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems to have held up in the Utah court of appeals: “Instead, during trial, the prosecution offered testimony and argument about his refusal. The defense argued that this violated the defendant’s Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, which also prevents the state from commenting on his silence. The court of appeals agreed, and now the state has appealed to the Utah Supreme Court.” In that text, “prevents the state…
Fair point. It has held up in a single state court of appeals, so I was definitely wrong about this being without substance on appeal, but the jurisdiction of the ruling is quite small and I am unaware of anything federal backing the claims being made.
See e.g. p. 10ff. of the amicus brief where quite a lot of federal precedent is cited.
Re: Police can’t demand you reveal your phone passcode then tell a jury you refused
#20Sortof off topic question. I've never owned a smart phone but might get one soon assuming I can find a decent one that will run grapheneOS.
Is there an app that can be given permission to intercept the unlock code and upon receiving the panic/under duress code, discretely put the phone into a "parental controls" configuration that sandboxes all your data and only presents the storage you want the law enforcement children to see? Some cops use a USB device that pulls all the data from the phone. Is there a way to sandbox that data so they only get the data from approved apps and the forensics USB device does not know any better? i.e. not denied data, but rather can only see what you want it to see. Or should this be a feature request to the alternate phone operating systems developers?
Maybe this duress code should also activate a timer. If the all-clear code is not entered in a user-defined period of time, the phone wipes all user data in the background resetting it to a brand new phone. Or maybe wipe the data for specified applications to not appear to destroy evidence? Maybe also send network notifications(s) to specific in case of mission compromise destinations?
[Edit] Feature request update. This duress system should also log all the data that was added or planted after the duress code was entered, to log people planting evidence. Upload encrypted manifest,timestamps and checksums to remote site in the event law enforcement tamper with evidence.