BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries • Hacker News Board

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#11

Post by gamblor956 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

infocollector wrote: post #2

Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?

For point of comparison, LA had several EV buses built by BYD and literally none of them work anymore despite only being service for about a month or two. In fact, almost every US transit agency that has purchased a BYD EV has had issues with the vehicles, batteries, or both.

So to answer your questions: the BYD batteries will be a lot lower quality than the batteries Tesla currently gets.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#12

Post by balia » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

infocollector wrote: post #2

Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?

Is arbitrarily pointing out “fyi this is a CHINESE business” the new “fyi this is a JEWISH business”?

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#13

Post by caf » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #5

infocollector wrote: post #2

Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?

So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…

The CATL LFP batteries Tesla has been using already have only gone in the SR+ model, because they couldn't fit enough for the necessary range in the LR and P models, so in practice they do seem to use more space.

As far as I know they're not prismatic, they're using the same form factor as the NCA and NMC cells in those models.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#14

Post by CamperBob2 » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

balia wrote: post #12

infocollector wrote: post #2

Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?

Is arbitrarily pointing out “fyi this is a CHINESE business” the new “fyi this is a JEWISH business”?

That interpretation might be a bit inflammatory. But at a minimum, it's certainly the new "fyi this is a JAPANESE business."

How'd that work out for the generation of manufacturers that used it as a veiled insult?

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#15

Post by sudosysgen » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

caf wrote: post #13

sudosysgen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Tesla's Li-ion batteries are going to have a significantly higher mass energy density - these are around 150Wh/kg vs 230Wh/kg that Tesla can currently muster. This is somewhat mitigated by the fact that LiFePO4 handles 100% charges and 100% discharge, so in practice the protections on Li-ion means you can only really get 190Wh or so out of them every day, significantly narrowing the gap. However, these are going t…

The CATL LFP batteries Tesla has been using already have only gone in the SR+ model, because they couldn't fit enough for the necessary range in the LR and P models, so in practice they do seem to use more space. As far as I know they're not prismatic, they're using the same form factor as the NCA and NMC cells in those models.

The article seems to say that these are the BYD Blade batteries so it would be prismatic, unless the article is wrong

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#16

Post by macinjosh » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:37 PM UTC

balia wrote: post #12

infocollector wrote: post #2

Just in case -> BYD Co. Ltd. is a Chinese manufacturing company headquartered in Shenzhen, Guangdong, founded by Wang Chuanfu in February 1995. Perhaps someone can comment on quality of these batteries compared to the current car batteries Tesla uses?

Is arbitrarily pointing out “fyi this is a CHINESE business” the new “fyi this is a JEWISH business”?

I don't think so, though perhaps it should more accurately be phrased as a COMMUNIST CHINESE business. That is why people care, because the CCP has an aytpical way of doing business that comes with its own risks and potential problems. It really has everything to do with economics and nothing to do with race/nationality/heritage.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#17

Post by anonymousiam » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:38 PM UTC

Tesla said that they will use LFP batteries from now on in all "standard range" cars.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte...

As I understand it, the "standard range" cars are no different from the long range cars, other than a software flag that allows a greater battery discharge.

So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those.

https://www.tesla.com/videos/battery-swap-event

https://www.businessinsider.com/teslas-battery-swapping-plan...

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#18

Post by ericmay » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

anonymousiam wrote: post #17

Tesla said that they will use LFP batteries from now on in all "standard range" cars. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte... As I understand it, the "standard range" cars are no different from the long range cars, other than a software flag that allows a greater battery discharge. So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those. https://ww…

> So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those.

I don’t think they’ll ever build those. Huge infrastructure requirement, gigantic overhead, most people don’t take long-distance trips often and when they do a 20 minute supercharge is good enough for people to not really demand a battery swap station.

You also can expand the footprint of “cords” much faster and much farther. Not to mention battery swap stations probably wouldn’t be designed to service other cars, unlike future charging stalls.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#19

Post by iknowstuff » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

anonymousiam wrote: post #17

Tesla said that they will use LFP batteries from now on in all "standard range" cars. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte... As I understand it, the "standard range" cars are no different from the long range cars, other than a software flag that allows a greater battery discharge. So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those. https://ww…

Tesla has no plans to develop battery swap stations. They abandoned them back in 2015 or so.

Standard range cars have fewer cells than long range cars, so it's not just software, they physically output less power.

Re: BYD has reportedly received 10 GWh of orders from Tesla for LFP batteries

#20

Post by pmorici » Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

anonymousiam wrote: post #17

Tesla said that they will use LFP batteries from now on in all "standard range" cars. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/20/tesla-switching-to-lfp-batte... As I understand it, the "standard range" cars are no different from the long range cars, other than a software flag that allows a greater battery discharge. So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those. https://ww…

"So this will complicate the Tesla fast battery swap stations if they ever actually build any of those."

They aren't planning do battery swapping. None of their recent designs have any provisions for it. That was something they considered early on and then abandon once they advanced their fast charging technology.