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With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

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Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#11
It's a nice gesture by Foster, for sure, but she'd have better used her money on other space projects.

The Alan Array of the Seti Institute will only be of much use if they can build out to 350 Arrays from the current 42. Supporting just $200,000 to keep the 42 operational isn't going to do anything but keep the pretty useless current array working!

Also just so you know SETI @ home doesn't rely on the Allan Array - they're separate.

The SETI Institute was pretty much a boondoggle: Alan gave them money to build an array of 350 telescopes, but they screwed up and only built 42, essentially wasting the funds. Here's other info: http://www.skyandtelescope.com/resources/seti/3304581.html

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#12

Someone posted the following on the article: "This's never made sense to me. When you consider the inverse square law for electromagnetic transmission in light of the distances we're talking about, any signal big enough for us to receive would have completely cooked anything at the point of origin." A quick Wikipedia search says that the inverse square law does apply to radio waves. Can someone that understands this…

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/astronomy/faq/part6/section-12.html In the middle of the table is an interesting chart that shows the distance that radio can be detected. You will notice that for large distance you need terawats of power and a very low band widths, fractions of a Hz. A big TV station doesnt make it out of the Solar System, while a very powerful, low bandwidth, focused source can be detected for hundreds of light years. Unless someone is pointing at us at the same time we are pointing at them, we will probably miss them.

We can detect quasars billions of light years away because they are big mothers, but really hard to modulate, and turned off by now.

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#13
post #8

Someone posted the following on the article: "This's never made sense to me. When you consider the inverse square law for electromagnetic transmission in light of the distances we're talking about, any signal big enough for us to receive would have completely cooked anything at the point of origin." A quick Wikipedia search says that the inverse square law does apply to radio waves. Can someone that understands this…

Considering we can detect radio sources more than 10 billion light years away, I suspect ours can probably be spotted a few tens of thousands away.

I can see the sun from more than 90 million miles away, but that does not mean I can see your flashlight from a few tens of miles away.

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#14
post #2

We have all those radio telescopes built already. Seems silly for humans to let them sit idle. Even if we don't find aliens I'm sure there is something interesting to see with all that gear.

Especially considering how relatively cheap they are to operate.

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#15
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering we can detect radio sources more than 10 billion light years away, I suspect ours can probably be spotted a few tens of thousands away.

I can see the sun from more than 90 million miles away, but that does not mean I can see your flashlight from a few tens of miles away.

With good optics and a vacuum in between, sure you can.

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#16

Someone posted the following on the article: "This's never made sense to me. When you consider the inverse square law for electromagnetic transmission in light of the distances we're talking about, any signal big enough for us to receive would have completely cooked anything at the point of origin." A quick Wikipedia search says that the inverse square law does apply to radio waves. Can someone that understands this…

A quick Wikipedia search says that the inverse square law does apply to radio waves

I don't understand why not. Aside from the difference in wavelength, there's absolutely no physical difference between radio waves and physical light.

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#17

Someone posted the following on the article: "This's never made sense to me. When you consider the inverse square law for electromagnetic transmission in light of the distances we're talking about, any signal big enough for us to receive would have completely cooked anything at the point of origin." A quick Wikipedia search says that the inverse square law does apply to radio waves. Can someone that understands this…

Can someone that understands this better than I explain why this may or may not apply?

That's a good choice of wording :) It may or may not apply, it depends on the antenna.

The physical basis for all inverse square laws - gravity, electrical charge attraction, radio signal strength, is actually geometric. They are all measurements of some kind of flux, so you have a certain quantity of signal, which then has to be divided by the surface area of the sphere surrounding the source. As the distance from the source increases, the surface area of the sphere increases as the square of the radius.

So yes, if the source is in fact a point source radiating equally in all directions, the signal drops off as per the inverse square law. But, if you have a very tight beam, then the signal strength is maintained for a lot longer. In that case, signal loss is caused by diffusion, and by attenuation due to hitting matter that is in the beam. A highly parallel laser beam of a not unreasonable power level, preferably generated from a satellite orbiting outside any atmosphere, should be capable of being received pretty much anywhere in the galaxy. Alternatively, if you have a big enough dish, you could do the same thing with radio waves. Indeed, it is estimated that Arecibo is capable of communicating with any other Arecibo-style dish in a roughly 100 hundred light year diameter around the Earth, if the two happen to be pointed at each other, and one is transmitting whilst the other is receiving... http://www.cplire.ru/html/ra&sr/irm/limitations.html

And that's with a measly 1000kW radio, weaker than most primary radars used today.

Re: With Help From Jodie Foster, SETI Resumes Search for Alien Life

#19
I have a question: is SETI actually useful?

There's a couple of agencies on Earth that spend their time capturing human communications. It's a very difficult task and they need more than $ 200,000 to operate.

Now I understand we just want to detect with a good degree of certitude that a transmission is intelligent but not human. We don't care about descrambling it.

Yet, I think it's an almost impossible task because those communications will most likely be compressed and ciphered and therefore look like noise.

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