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Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

zdnet.com

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Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#11

Post by rbanffy »

macco wrote: post #9

As a great Ubuntu fan I must say: It's strange why mobile plattforms are always a example for the success of Linux. Android may be using a Linux kernel, but it has next to nothing to do with traditionel Linux distros, that are developed in colaboration.

You see the collaboration because desktop and server distros are so much bigger than Android, Bada, MeeGo and WebOS. OTOH, you can see the collaboration of Google, Samsung, Nokia and Palm/HP on the Linux kernel itself, even on your desktop or server.

As for collaboration, although Android is open-source, it's not developed by a community - it's Google's gift to the world built on top of a Linux kernel.

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#12

Post by macdonald »

I don't see why these types of articles have to focus on the notion of a 'victory' for either side. Microsoft isn't winning, but it's making a lot of money in various areas, so it's not losing either.

Microsoft probably is concerned about declining market share, but to suggest it was always targeting 100% of the market is misleading (there are people that have always and will always run Linux, and there are other people -- particularly large enterprises -- that they are much more focused on).

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#13

Post by ajross »

macco wrote: post #9

As a great Ubuntu fan I must say: It's strange why mobile plattforms are always a example for the success of Linux. Android may be using a Linux kernel, but it has next to nothing to do with traditionel Linux distros, that are developed in colaboration.

This is more a myth than reality.

It's definitely not a compatible environment, but I'd argue with "next to nothing". Android shares the same kernel, is built with the same toolchain, has the same underlying POSIX environment (albeit a reimplemented one, not the GNU software itself), uses most of the same base library set (libjpeg, zlib, etc...), uses most of the same middleware components (bluez, wpa_supplicant, etc...).

The one big architectural difference is that they ripped out the X server and replaced it with their own minimal window system. But even then the rendering API (OpenGL ES) is an existing standard from the desktop world. And the only hugely different component is the API: they wrote an app framework in Java and run it on their own VM. But that's just the skin. Underneath it's all still linux.

To someone who does nothing but write apps using top-level frameworks, Android looks "next to nothing" like "Linux". To someone who actually knows linux, it's all the same stuff.

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#14

Post by iamelgringo »

I've been interacting quite a bit with with Microsoft people in the last couple of years.

I was shocked to meet a bunch of people within Microsoft that have recently migrated there from Sun. Joel Franusic, the BizSpark evangelist for Silicon Valley has roots as a php/perl/linux Admin, and has been a Super Happy Dev House organizer since the early days.

They are working really hard to change Microsoft's attitude towards open source and *nix in general. They are trying to change the attitude from one of competition to that of cooperation. And, I believe that's why you see things like Microsoft joining the Apache foundation, Microsoft contributing a lot of patches to Linux, funding the port of Node.js to Windows, etc...

So, perhaps the change in wording is a hall mark of a change in attitude, rather than a declaration of victory. I could be wrong.

The crew at BizSpark Silicon Valley have been the biggest supporters of our Hackers & Founders tag line of the "Linux of Incubators." http://angel.co/hackers_and_founders

Microsoft BizSpark sponsors a number of Hackers & Founders events in Silicon Valley[1]. I don't make any money from them, however. They cover the costs for some of the events that we hold to help startups and founders.

ref:

[1] http://hackersandfounders.tv

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#15

Post by movingahead »

gvb wrote: post #7
mindstab wrote: post #2

I guess "the year of the Linux desktop" may never come, but it also may be irrelevant :) Linux may still "win"

Mark Shuttleworth says Ubuntu is making inroads on desktops and is poised to take off: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/738 FWIIW, IMHO there never will be a "year of the linux desktop." Linux on the desktop is an infiltration, not a blitzkrieg. As such, it will only be recognizable in retrospect.

Even as a passionate Ubuntu follower, I don't see the possibility of Ubuntu going main-stream. The OS may match or even exceed the capabilities of Windows, but it is more important to have a diverse number of generally used apps. I feel Chrome OS has a very good chance of getting mainstream popularity. It does what it intends to do pretty well.

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#16

Post by recoiledsnake »

justinsb wrote: post #10

I read Microsoft's original change of wording completely differently - it wasn't that they had defeated Linux, it was that Windows had already lost (largely because their competitors changed the game.) Competitors no longer compete only with Internet Explorer, they now offer an alternative to the entire Windows OS. Linux on the desktop (GNOME/KDE) didn't win per-se, but the browser did win, and Windows isn't a necess…

>it was that Windows had already lost (largely because their competitors changed the game.) Competitors no longer compete only with Internet Explorer, they now offer an alternative to the entire Windows OS. Linux on the desktop (GNOME/KDE) didn't win per-se, but the browser did win, and Windows isn't a necessary choice for a browser-first system.

Is that reflected in sales figures?

They do acknowledge competition from Apple(OS X and iPad) and Google(Chromebook) and OS X has been offering a very big and popular alternative to 'the entire Windows OS' since inception.

How can you say Windows already lost while they are shipping on 85% of the PCs and laptops in the US and much higher worldwide?

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#17

Post by jff »

movingahead wrote: post #15
gvb wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mark Shuttleworth says Ubuntu is making inroads on desktops and is poised to take off: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/738 FWIIW, IMHO there never will be a "year of the linux desktop." Linux on the desktop is an infiltration, not a blitzkrieg. As such, it will only be recognizable in retrospect.

Even as a passionate Ubuntu follower, I don't see the possibility of Ubuntu going main-stream. The OS may match or even exceed the capabilities of Windows, but it is more important to have a diverse number of generally used apps. I feel Chrome OS has a very good chance of getting mainstream popularity. It does what it intends to do pretty well.

But... Chrome OS is little more than Chrome, running on a Linux base. You can run Chrome on Ubuntu, and still access all your files and such. There are even tools to let you mount your Gmail storage space locally so you can use it for a document store.

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#18

Post by spydum »

Did I miss something? Microsoft is not a small competitor in this field: http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/online_mobile/who-is-win...

Yes, Android is rocking it, and so is iOS.. but 10% of the mobile smartphone market is nothing to sneeze at. And those are old numbers.

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#19

Post by jff »

"Supercomputers, the fastest of the fast, run Linux almost exclusively."

And it's so disappointing. Consider the Blue Gene series. Great new architecture, custom networks, custom hardware. Initially, they put Linux on the I/O nodes and a custom kernel on the compute nodes, because you want a minimum of OS noise (see the FTQ benchmark for more info on this). But everyone clamored for Linux on compute nodes--so now we boot this enormous Linux kernel on each compute node. Plan 9 was ported (I did some of it), but nobody wanted it because it wasn't Linux.

I'm of the opinion that no group in the world is as set-in-their-ways and reactionary as the supercomputing application developers. If it can't run Linux and Fortran 77, they don't want it.

Re: Linux snickers at Microsoft's victory declaration

#20

Post by justinsb »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #16
justinsb wrote: post #10

I read Microsoft's original change of wording completely differently - it wasn't that they had defeated Linux, it was that Windows had already lost (largely because their competitors changed the game.) Competitors no longer compete only with Internet Explorer, they now offer an alternative to the entire Windows OS. Linux on the desktop (GNOME/KDE) didn't win per-se, but the browser did win, and Windows isn't a necess…

>it was that Windows had already lost (largely because their competitors changed the game.) Competitors no longer compete only with Internet Explorer, they now offer an alternative to the entire Windows OS. Linux on the desktop (GNOME/KDE) didn't win per-se, but the browser did win, and Windows isn't a necessary choice for a browser-first system. Is that reflected in sales figures? They do acknowledge competition fro…

It's reflected in (my reading of) Microsoft's statement.

Sales figures are retrospective; this section of their 10-K is forward looking.

Also, if you define the market to include smartphones and tablets, I'm pretty sure Microsoft doesn't have 85% market share. The open question is whether that broader definition represents the future of "the computer market" or whether it should remain a separate category.

Of course, you're welcome to your own interpretation - lots of people read it very differently than I did.

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