Two Arms and a Head (2008) • Hacker News Board

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#11

Post by billyjobob » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 4:58 AM UTC

I don't have time to re-read this, so I may be misremembering the details, but my impression as I recall at the time was that this guy was depressed and wrote this book to justify his suicide - to 'prove' it was the correct course of action for someone in his position. (Yes he acknowledges other people can manage to live as a quadriplegic, but not him, because he had a far more active life before the accident than any of them.)

The problems with his argument:

* While it's true a spinal cord cannot be repaired, he never engaged with rehabilitation to improve his situation at all.

* His main problem was depression. He assumed it was caused by the accident, and so didn't bother to treat it. But millions of physically healthy people suffer from depression and kill themselves too. And some very disabled people don't suffer from depression.

I was left thinking that while it may be nothing would have helped, we just don't know. His friends, family and doctors let him down by not forcing him to undergo rehabilitation and psychotherapy.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#12

Post by voidhorse » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:05 AM UTC

What an ego. Hard to be sympathetic when a person’s writing is so heavily suffused with their absolute love of their self and little else (the first section basically amounts to “I don’t believe in morality but for unknown reasons think I’m the shit and have valuable Philosophical opinions and can write an ecce homo style piece with next to nothing to justify it), the author does not sound at all like a “truth teller” rather like an egoist. I don’t feel bad for ”Clayton Atreus” I could hardly make it through the first section of this scrap. I don’t give a damn that you’re familiar with the canon of western literature, many people are. He mentions Dostoyevsky-he is a total Luzhin. Sorry. I welcome the downvotes. I do think it’s important that we have authentic writing about the experiences of disability, but I think a long preamble that makes you absolutely pretentious, egotistical, and pompous in the eyes of readers is the wrong way to go about it.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#13

Post by s5300 » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:27 AM UTC

billyjobob wrote: post #11

I don't have time to re-read this, so I may be misremembering the details, but my impression as I recall at the time was that this guy was depressed and wrote this book to justify his suicide - to 'prove' it was the correct course of action for someone in his position. (Yes he acknowledges other people can manage to live as a quadriplegic, but not him , because he had a far more active life before the accident than a…

> "forcing him to undergo rehabilitation and psychotherapy."

...

this, this is your definition of life?

You also seem to have absolutely zero respect for his definition and meaning of life.

I really hope we're far, far away from companies being able to force us to undergo "rehabilitation and psychotherapy" so we're not "depressed" and are happy to work all day making them money. With thoughts like yours though, I feel we may be closer than I'd ever like to think.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#14

Post by DantesKite » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:35 AM UTC

billyjobob wrote: post #11

I don't have time to re-read this, so I may be misremembering the details, but my impression as I recall at the time was that this guy was depressed and wrote this book to justify his suicide - to 'prove' it was the correct course of action for someone in his position. (Yes he acknowledges other people can manage to live as a quadriplegic, but not him , because he had a far more active life before the accident than a…

That’s a very flippant way of disregarding someone who constantly shit themselves and decided that tortured life wasn’t worth living.

I hope fate never touches you so cruelly as to make you reflect on your callousness years from now.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#15

Post by everyone » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:35 AM UTC

"Everything I had wanted for years was right in front of me. I was going to get my J.D. and a Ph.D. in philosophy. My plan was, among other things, to be a philosophy professor for at least a while. I believed I had a special gift and could be not only a good professor, but an absolutely wonderful one. But I also needed adventure and the law degree would give me the ability to easily get fun and exciting jobs all over the world. On the weekends I would climb mountains and jump and play in the ocean. I would take months off at a time- travel, adventure, girls, fun, rowdiness, freedom! Sounding my barbaric YAWP across the rooftops of the world!"

Based on that I'm assuming this guy comes from wealth?

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#16

Post by danbmil99 » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

billyjobob wrote: post #11

I don't have time to re-read this, so I may be misremembering the details, but my impression as I recall at the time was that this guy was depressed and wrote this book to justify his suicide - to 'prove' it was the correct course of action for someone in his position. (Yes he acknowledges other people can manage to live as a quadriplegic, but not him , because he had a far more active life before the accident than a…

Forcing? Really?

And if, after forcing your trendy medical blandishments on him, if he still wanted to die, would you let him?

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#17

Post by everyone » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 5:56 AM UTC

voidhorse wrote: post #12

What an ego. Hard to be sympathetic when a person’s writing is so heavily suffused with their absolute love of their self and little else (the first section basically amounts to “I don’t believe in morality but for unknown reasons think I’m the shit and have valuable Philosophical opinions and can write an ecce homo style piece with next to nothing to justify it), the author does not sound at all like a “truth teller…

Agreed, it's like he thinks being paralyzed instantly makes him interesting. Theres a lack of concrete details but it seems like he was a privileged, callow, entitled, thoughtless man before the accident, and nothing really changed.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#18

Post by shannifin » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 6:20 AM UTC

voidhorse wrote: post #12

What an ego. Hard to be sympathetic when a person’s writing is so heavily suffused with their absolute love of their self and little else (the first section basically amounts to “I don’t believe in morality but for unknown reasons think I’m the shit and have valuable Philosophical opinions and can write an ecce homo style piece with next to nothing to justify it), the author does not sound at all like a “truth teller…

I can't imagine how I would handle such an awful ordeal as his, but I do think his ego and his finding the value of his life entirely in his own limited sense of potential worldly accomplishments only made his suffering all the worse. I found his attitude to be even demonic at times. I cannot pass judgment on the guy himself, but the attitude portrayed in the writing is very spiritually warped and dark.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#19

Post by stavros » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 10:24 AM UTC

> Losing both legs is bad, but paraplegia is ghoulishly, nightmarishly worse.

I don't understand why he didn't have his legs amputated if they caused him so much anguish.

Re: Two Arms and a Head (2008)

#20

Post by quietbritishjim » Sun, Oct 17, 2021, 10:49 AM UTC

voidhorse wrote: post #12

What an ego. Hard to be sympathetic when a person’s writing is so heavily suffused with their absolute love of their self and little else (the first section basically amounts to “I don’t believe in morality but for unknown reasons think I’m the shit and have valuable Philosophical opinions and can write an ecce homo style piece with next to nothing to justify it), the author does not sound at all like a “truth teller…

He was certainly a person with some flaws. It seems to me like he took up philosophy to retroactively justify, mostly to himself, the way he was already living his life.

Another part that I found especially unpleasant was how, in the chapter about sexuality, he seamlessly transitioned from his sexual attraction to women to how much he enjoyed beating up other men. He made it quite clear that the two things were different sides of the same coin to him.

His accident followed a similar pattern. On the motorcycle forums where he was posting pictures of his trip as it happened, there were lots of comments politely begging him to wear more protective equipment. He acknowledged then but politely refused.

Ultimately, I still sympathised with him. He didn't do himself any favours, and I probably wouldn't have wanted to know him personally, but he didn't deserve the level of torture he ended up enduring.